Quarter-Life Capital

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Speaker 1 0:03
Quiet. Quitting is a function of society. It's like, okay, like employers are probably not making it as incentivized as possible for the employees.

Speaker 2 0:10
So like, usually when someone starts a company, it's like they find a co founder, and it feels like now that co founder can become AI. And so like, everyone has a guaranteed high quality co founder from the get go, there's

Speaker 1 0:21
all other sorts of side hustles as well. You can be a Lyft driver. You can be a DoorDash driver and delivering food, and you can you can do some other things, like driving a bus or something, right? So there's always different types of side hustles that you know one can do. It doesn't have to be necessarily coding in

Speaker 2 0:35
today's day and age. I think there's zero excuse for anyone, I don't care if you're a non technical or technical founder, to not have a full understanding of the entire horizontal layer of your business. Think

Speaker 1 0:44
it's important to also understand the risks of starting a startup right and the chances of hitting rock bottom. So I think personally, I've hit rock bottom at least five

Speaker 2 1:02
times. So hey, George man, how's your day been so far for the weekend? Or

Speaker 1 1:08
no, wow. It's, it's, it's a late night at Friday, and has been hell of a two weeks. So nothing crazy. Just been, like, really busy on deadline. So I think I guess, like getting up early in the morning, coming to work, finish work by like, nine o'clock PM, and then get home at 10, and then sleep, wake up gym, run some repeat. Yeah, I feel

Speaker 2 1:29
like that's where, like the difference becomes, right between, like, a nine to five stable job and like businesses like that you're running yourself, is, like, there's a lot of sprints you have to do, versus like, I think like the nine to five is you keep a marathon, steady pace, like throughout the year for the most part. Do you kind of feel that way, too? Or how has it been like on the business side?

Speaker 1 1:48
So, yeah, for me, I think there's definitely times where you just get a lot busier, and there are times that you're less busy, you know. So there's always this, like, you know, for example, the first three months of the year has been, I guess, quite chill. You know, nothing crazy. I spent about like, nine hours, 10 hours a day, you know, at work at most, right? And some and I can take my weekends off, so that's not an issue at all. So, and then, you know, starting two, three weeks ago, I haven't taken any weekends off, right? So that's like the sacrifice that you have to take when you're entrepreneur and you're trying to start something new, right? Because the reality is that, let's say you're building like an AI startup in America, right, or somewhere else, and you're competing with engineers in China. I know that. I know for a fact that engineers in China working for Alibaba and Tencent, they have, they work eight hour shifts, but they have three different teams that are working eight hour shifts. So from 12 to eight, eight, you know, eight to four, four to 12. So they work, technically, 24 hours a day, right? And you're for trying to compete with those teams, you know, like, yeah, just like, in terms of how hard you work, you're not gonna win, right? So there's like, this paradigm of, like, okay, like, you know, I personally doesn't like, we're enjoying this, like, Western lifestyle of, you know, having a chill work life balance, which is pretty cool, but to be competitive, like, sometimes you do have to sacrifice your lifestyles and, just like, your schedule, a little bit. I think that's a trade off, yeah, and I think the way it kind of is a trade off, if we assume only on the western side of things, because I think, like, the culture is different for work versus, like, what you're mentioning with China, it's like, much more of like a grind, grind, grind. One thing I've noticed is, like, for people that have, like, their own business, it's kind of this idea that, like, it's like an athlete almost, you have to keep yourself mentally ready for, like, game day. Like, for example, you said, like, these past two weeks have been where everything was going to be happening, right? And it's like, but you have to be prepared beforehand. Versus, like, for me, when it comes to, like, my job, things like that, it's, it feels like, on a day to day basis, you have to show up, you give a you give like your full all. But it feels like you don't have to go above and beyond. You can kind of almost like coast for a bit like, I think a lot of in the past couple years, this whole idea of quiet quitting has become a thing, right? Where on the Western culture, people kind of stop giving their all for like, a job, essentially, you kind of felt something like that, too. Or I think quiet quitting is probably still a thing today, right? And as a business owner, I can probably notice when my employees or which one of my employees are quiet quitting, right? Just basically not giving it all. And I think quiet quitting has has a reason, really, because I think, I think at the end of the day, like, right now, okay, right now, we're not seeing people quiet quitting is because the job market is getting competitive, right? And AI is basically replacing a lot more job functions. However, I do think job like, quiet quitting is a function of society. It's like, okay, like employers are probably not making it as incentivized as possible for the employees, right? So probably, if I'm an employee working at a company, and I don't really see myself like spending extra, let's say, 20 hours a week, right? If I'm getting treated the same as my other colleagues, who are just basically not doing anything or just barely passing by, right? And I've heard the same. Stories from my friends who work at Google or Microsoft. It's actually the same there. You know, even, even at the biggest tech companies in the world, people are still quiet quitting. So it's, it's definitely not about pay. It's, this is probably more about, like, it's more about fulfillment, right? Are you fulfilled about your job? You know, that's really like, the problem that I think we have these days for me, I think I'm fulfilled most of the time. You know, like, I will say 90% of what I do really motivates me to do like what I do. So, yeah, so how do you what about you like? How do you feel about the stuff that you do, just like at work, or like from people that are around you? Do you feel like they're giving their all? Or,

Speaker 2 5:38
yeah, and I think it kind of gets split into two. I still think majority of people is inside of a job, don't feel that level of fulfillment, because I think it's hard when you when you're working an actual like, I guess nine to five. It's the fact that you kind of lose a lot of agency and like, I guess, like, Liberty to a certain sense, because you're clocking in at an X amount of time, you're usually clocked me out by X amount of time. And I think, for example, when I think back to how university life was, it's a very different type of environment that you kind of like start like being raised in almost. And so then I think, like, when it comes to people I've noticed in terms of, I guess, quiet, quitting, or not giving their all, I would put them in two sides of things. One is the people that honestly just feel dull and feel like, oh, they just don't care enough. But then the other, I guess more exciting batch, is this idea of people that start side hustles, where they kind of go into this idea of, oh, maybe I want to start my own company. And then while they're at like this, like, oh, like you mentioned, like Google or something like that. They're getting skills or honing them while, like, they can start some part of their own, and then once they feel confident, they're like, Okay, let me make that next jump, especially with AI, I feel like that's just increased it tenfold. Because if you're an individual with agency, I feel like aI kind of is a superpower, almost, right?

Speaker 1 7:00
Yeah. And let's dive into a little bit more about like, Why do you think people around you are thinking of starting a side hustle, or a second business, or, you know, something else. So, why is that? So do you think it's because of the pay? Do you think that, like, the cost of living after COVID has been, like, so high, people are just really thinking about, okay, I need to start something, right? Whatever it is to support my income, to support my lifestyle. Or do you think it's more something about boredom, that your people are just bored of their day jobs, they want something to keep them motivated? Or maybe, is there some other reasons?

Speaker 2 7:30
Yeah, I think this is, like, the stars are aligned perfectly situation, if you think about it right now, like, like the cost of living, I think, is 100% an important aspect. The median salary, I think in Canada, is around $60,000 and that just doesn't seem livable outside of very rural environments. Like to have still life in the suburbs, starting today, it feels like you have to have, like, almost be in the top 10% in terms of net worth and things along those lines. So in that, in the sense of desperation, humans adapt. And I think that is, like, a reason why people are like, let me do the side hustle. The second part is, we're seeing this, like technology burst. It feels like, like when the web was first being developed, starting all over again with AI, right? Like the amount of stuff I can do, like, I think the hardest part for a lot of individuals has been in terms of back end stuff, like, maybe I wanted to create a legal document, tax structures. These, like, very annoying topics that usually were a barrier for majority of people have become much lower in terms of a barrier. And then the last part, I think, is just this idea that once you are able to actually start the side, also you can see if it works now, and you can just see, like, where you can go with the end. And the reason why that is, it feels catalystic, right? If you're in, like a white collar job, it doesn't feel like in 10 years, you'd be as useful as maybe these AIs. And so it makes sense that right now is kind of in, like a desperation. Let me try and do something for myself as well. Yeah,

Speaker 1 9:02
I know friends. I have a few friends who are just straight up telling me that, okay, I think my job function is going to be replaced by AI some some point, like, soon to the future, if it's not, like, next year, it'll be probably two years after that. If it's not two years after that, will be three years after that. So people are really getting a little bit nervous about this, right? And I think the idea of like, okay, knowing that your job is going to be replaced, it's actually quite scary, right? So, and I think, and I think for a side hustle. So all of my friends are telling me they want to build an app, you know? And I think that's because, okay, my personal background, I'm in computer science. I know people are from computer science, so maybe when they're trying to do something, it's more about an app, and AI has made it possible, right? But to be fair, there's all other sorts of side hustles as well. You can be a Lyft driver, you can be a DoorDash driver and delivering food, and you can, you can do some other things, like driving a bus or something, right? So there's always different types of side hustles that you know one can do. It doesn't have to be necessarily coding because, because that's not for another topic, but it can also get very. Very like, competitive, and so I guess so I'm like, What do you think about folks who want to start a side hustle? Because, to be completely honest, like, I've been hearing about, like, you know, friends around me who are looking to start something as, like, at least three years ago, you know, I remember people telling me COVID is the best time now I want to start something, you know, and then, and then, that's never got started. I think most of the people that I know they want to start something, they always say they're going to start something, but then it just never comes into fruition. Do you have friends like this, and do you think, like, Why? Why is that? I

Speaker 2 10:30
agree completely. I think a lot of people, when they're in the university, you're in this very idealistic mindset where, oh, I can kind of conquer the world. And during that, a lot of the times, I guess, like, the logical thing to do is like, Oh, I'll work in a corporation for a couple of years, and I'll start my own thing. I think so many people I know personally have had like a mindset similar to that. But then as you start going into like, the job, there's like, I feel like a sense of complacency kicks in. So you'll still say, like, oh, I want to start something. I want to start something. But then a lot of people end up just being comfortable in their job. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that either, right? That at a point, if you're working hard, you want to stay, you want to get to a point where you feel comfortable. And so if you get to a point where, even if something was like your dream, at one point, it's human nature that you get used to something and you feel comfortable,

Speaker 1 11:20
yeah, yeah, even, even I had a job like, you know, many years ago, right? So I had internships. I've tried different, different roles. I work in small startups. You know, both of my internships are small startups. So I guess that's how I trained to be kind of who I am, and how I really got to build my own startup is really just a process of, like, learning and adapting. I get to know what you like, right? And do you think like so I'm, do you think this corporate life, like you said, Do you think it's a little bit like complacency, a little bit because I've no, I have friends, I have many friends who obviously graduated, and then they find a job, right? And then during conversations, I think very few of them actually feel that sort of fulfillment they have right in that job, right? And I'm wondering, okay, what exactly is that like? Why is that exactly right? And I've kind of found out that, okay, like my friends who have a little bit of, like, skin in the game, like a stock equity, you know, or some stock options, they seem to be a little bit more, like, motivated, compared to the other folks who doesn't have any stock equity centers, who are just getting paid a compensation, basically like building your time right to do something you think they're not feeling motivated because of the system of how it works. Of motivating people? Is that broken?

Speaker 2 12:32
I agree completely. I think as humans, you have two incentives. One is the obvious incentive of resource, which is, in this case, money. And like you mentioned, people that have stock in this, they have skin in the game. And as if you do better, the company probably gets better. And the company gets better, your net worth increases. And that's on one side of things, and on the other side is, if you see it's the negative aspect, right? If you see a lot of people that just aren't putting in as much work as you like. For example, you'll stay an extra one or two hours after work, versus, like everyone else you see leaving at five on the dot. And you're like, wait, we get paid around the same. Why am I doing this? And at a point you just start becoming the same kind of individual, right? And that, I think, becomes a culture thing, where the culture gets set from whoever like management is. And if the culture, for example, I have a lot of friends in finance, I work in investment banking, things along those lines. Those people work 24/7, essentially, because they get bonuses of almost 100% for example, if their base is 110 grand, they could get a bonus of literally that same amount. They're all in becoming 220 it becomes easy to work harder, right? Because you have clear incentives, and then that culture has everyone working hard. And so then, even if the bonus is not as high as you wanted, because everyone around you there's like, this camaraderie and a culture you, you kind of become okay with doing more work.

Speaker 1 14:00
And I think it's important to also mention that, like, this is something I brought up, like, even a few years ago, is that okay? Like, we need to be realistic. Like, not everybody's going to be entrepreneurs, because for entrepreneurs to be successful, you usually need capital right, to start, to start something, and and to also be able to take a risk. And I think young people is obviously like, I think young people is very fortunate to be able to, let's say, come out of college and not really have a lot of like, expectations, and be able to start something, you know, during college, dropping out, or, like, just graduating, and instead of joining, like a big firm, decide to start something on their own for a year or two before they, you know, if it fails, they can always go out to a job, and if they if They succeed, then awesome, right? So I think, but that's obviously not for everybody. And I feel like perhaps it should be like, available as a chance for everybody. But I think a lot of times young people feel this like pressure of like, okay, finding the best job opportunities compared to the peers. And, you know, back in the days when I was at a University of Waterloo, the culture was. Was very competitive, was very cutthroat, right? Everybody was comparing, okay, who went to Google, who went to meta, and who would have did those different, like, top, you know, Silicon Valley companies. So the culture was so tight that if you're just like, kind of like the outlier, it's really difficult to even shine and think about, okay, like, actually, I want to do my own startup. You get, you get looked upon differently, right? Because that's not the trajectory that most people around you are, you know, looking forward for you to go, but coming back to that point. So I'm, do you think it's really hard for somebody to start something? Do you think that's like eating their chances away of succeeding? Because if somebody goes into the workforce and stays there forever, they probably never get a chance to hit that breakout moment again? Like, what do you what do you think of

Speaker 2 15:42
that? Yeah, and I think if I were to use, like, a poker analogy, it becomes this idea that, how many people go for the straight gut shot, you know, you're on the river card, and somebody jams all in. Like, not many people can say, I feel good in this situation. Let me push all in as well. If, for example, like, the way I would see getting a high quality job, like maybe at Google and me and finance, would be like, maybe the big four things along those lines. It feels like you've hit a pair, or you have a set. Like, whatever's showing on the board is already like, looks like one of the best hands, and it becomes hard for people to go away from that, right? In the case of anything else, I think that's what happens with people in university. It's, it's this idea that, for example, back in like, high school, grades were such a vital like, ranking amongst all peers, right? Whoever had like, the highest grades, he'd be, oh, this person has the best grade, he's the smartest. And then so as life constantly evolves, you you find different metrics to be able to compare yourself with your peers, even if, like, the most utopian places you go like you end up like, for example, I think Saudi Arabia license plates started carrying value because the cars itself stopped holding value, since everyone had a nice car. And so it becomes hard to, like, walk away from a guaranteed X amount salary to go into something as blind as a startup, which is basically you're spinning the roulette wheel. In a sense, you have to have high conviction, right?

Speaker 1 17:08
Yep. And I think it's important to also understand the risks of starting a startup, right, so, and the chances of hitting rock bottom. So I think personally, I've hit rock bottom at least five times, you know before, I bounce back. And every bounce back gets very difficult. You know, sometimes people don't bounce back from the fall of their business, right? Most, I personally know a lot of businesses that just shut down, right? That's the nature of it. So for in a corporate role like Soham, like shutting down basically means getting fired or getting laid off or leaving your job, right? So how do you see as someone who's, you know, who had opportunity of maybe doing both. How do you see it working in the corporate world sense? Like, do you think people are just changing their roles more often to try different things? Are you seeing people around you like doing that, or are you seeing people around you just look into, you know, eventually quit their jobs and do something new? What's the risk appetite? Like, yeah.

Speaker 2 18:00
Yeah. And I think one thing I've noticed a shift from maybe COVID Till now, is what I used to see a lot was like this idea of job hopping. You stay at a company for two years, and then you leave and you go to another company. You kind of like fall upwards constantly. What I'm starting to notice a little bit now is people are starting to stay a little bit more loyal to their own firms. It feels like salaries have kind of caught up, because, like, the job market started declining. We're starting to see this idea that whatever your firm is paying ends up becoming market value now, and maybe that's because more information is just available online, so firms are kind of forced to it. But that's one culture shift I'm seeing. But then the other one, I think, is what, like, the bigger topic we've been talking about is this idea of, like, yeah, again, people that have become more entrepreneurial, I think that's just simply because of AI. I can't think of any other reason that has such a grand impact for something as simple as this. And it does make sense because, for example, with like chatgpt, you can have conversations with it, and you basically have an assistant that wants to help you all of the time that, like, I remember I was asking chatgpt, like, what makes you happy or satisfied? And it literally gave me this analogy. It wags its tail when it gets to be able to, like, help you, like, bring stuff and in a situation like that, I think it makes it a lot easier for people to like, then start something. Because George, I don't know about you, but do you think you would have been able to start a company if it was completely on your own in the beginning? I feel like Usually when someone starts a company, it's like they find a co founder, they find one or two other people to start that with, and it feels like now that co founder can become AI. And so, like, everyone has a guaranteed high quality co founder from the get go. Yeah,

Speaker 1 19:45
I think, I think, yeah. I think that's a really good point when I started right, like, there's like, this Y Combinator mantra that says, like, okay, Drew Houston started Dropbox by himself, but he's now a liar. You know, everyone else is not supposed to do that. Like, you're not supposed to do that. Patrick Collison is. Two Brothers started stripe so and Airbnb has two co founders. Uber has two co founders. So you're supposed to never be so much preneur. So that was really the advice, I think, like when I, when I, like, started, like, listening to this Y Combinator, like horses when I was in my first year of college, and that was, like, embedded in me, right? And to be complete, Frank, I did not know how to code something really well at a time, right? So I really needed a technical co founder who really understood the requirements, who's not and it's like, it's stereotypical, I have to say a little bit stereotypical. I am that business guy. I'm like, you know, Steve Jobs. And I had to find a Steve Wozniak, right? Who's not charismatic, but who was really good at doing what they did. So that's how I started, like my company at a time, you know? And as we grew, like the co founder team, grew a little bit bigger and bigger, right? And, and that didn't work out, you know, quite well, coming back to it like, if I have to start something now, if that's your to start something now, I don't necessarily think he needs that many co founders, probably one, right? Because, because sometimes when you're building software and building product yourself, there's this risk that you're, having a bias, and sometimes having another co founder is able to help you see that you're biased, you're making a mistake, and help you correct that mistake, right? So even now, you know, in my in my company, we have this like team, we have these team members are telling me, George, you're wrong. You know, many times to my face, and I cannot be more grateful to have them telling me that I'm wrong so I can correct my mistakes. But I think today, chatgpt has played a big role in terms of and other AI tools have helped help me make better decisions, but most importantly, saving time. Right when I first started my startup, I had to hire lawyers to draft legal agreements, I have to hire accountants, I have to hire a bunch of other people to do different things, you know, to write like this and that, right? I have to go to Fiverr and Upwork to outsource. So now you can actually save a lot of that time, you know, money, right? Maybe time is even more important and really just do the things that's important for you. And I think that's something that you know, it's not possible before, right? But I think you have to always also be careful about the AI complacency, right? Are you just listening to AI telling you what to do, and then you go do it? So are you working for AI instead of the other way around, right? Are you be able to make your own, your own mind up, and are you be able to learn from your mistakes? So, and I think that's going to create a barrier of, like, really great, really great startups to average startups. And really great startups will be, actually be built by people who could use AI, but also have the life experiences that backs them up so they can avoid mistakes, right? So the few years of experience that you have accumulated, work in a traditional work, job, or, you know, working in a startup before AI can be actually the most multiplier for you right now. And I think that's something people coming out of school should really be thinking about, okay, like, Okay, now it's a good time to learn. But can I learn something faster? Can I learn something adapt things faster and also be learning on my mistakes faster? Right? Maybe you'll launch something and it fails and just do it again, and maybe you'll do it better. So that's kind of what I think so. So like, if you were to start something today, so if you were to start something, right, would you would you need a co founder?

Speaker 2 23:06
I think I'd still like the idea of a co founder, just like for me personally, because I think a big part of like starting a business is that camaraderie feeling too right. It's like you want somebody in the trenches with you, and for that reason, I still think it would be nice for me. I feel like I'm a bit more of a social individual, but in that same manner, if I think of somebody that's not extrovert, that's very introverted, I think now becomes the first time where you actually feel empowered to be able to do that same startup, because, again, you don't have to, like, then have these like, forced conversations that you don't feel as comfortable with. For example, George, when you were mentioning, like, the accountants or the lawyers, I feel like a lot of individuals would get scared and like, oh, like, oh, this person is a professional. I have to listen to everything they say, versus chat. GPT, you can just be like, straight up, wait, I don't think you're correct in this situation. And then you can keep going. And so the way I kind of view it is, even though me, personally, I again, I still would like somebody else, like alongside with me, just to feel safer. If does feel like now you have a compass, and as long as you can start guiding yourself wherever the compass is leading you up until I guess like, logic can also set in that hey, for example, if you were to be like, closer to, like, the Arctic north, then you'd constantly be facing north on the compass, right? So you should be able to still have like, your own logic check, like what you're mentioning about that complacency piece of it, and have like that final like sense check. But up until then, you have this Guiding Light almost, which I feel is very, very exciting. I agree.

Speaker 1 24:40
I think you touched on something that's pretty important about like, you know, like, basically, as a as a human, in this case, you are guiding the AI, you are making the decisions that's going to be important, right? So you're the guy who's making the decision. So you need to build that now. I call it knowledge layer. That really doesn't come naturally, you know. So when I started, when I started my first startup, I didn't know, I didn't know anything, to be very honest, I didn't know anything, absolutely nothing. And my first book was from zero to one, I think zero to one, by Peter teal. So I think many of you guys probably have heard about it or read it. So that was my first book. And then I read Lean Startup, right? And then I just started picking up books and reading it, and I get it as some people that you don't like reading books, I think that's totally fine. So today, you can actually go to gemini.google.com, right? And pick the latest model, and you can tell it. Can you do deep research and give me a summary of this book, you know? And then you can actually read the summary. And then if you don't even want to read a summary, you can click on the button that says, convert into an audio overview, and if you hear it just like a podcast of the book, you know, you don't even need to listen to, like the whole book. So there's, there's, there's all those things that you don't necessarily have to pick up a book and read it. That's what I did. You know, let's it's kind of boring at a time. Most people think reading a book is boring, but I didn't really think it's boring, right? So I read a lot of books over the years. I still read, and I read because of curiosity, right? It's like curiosity, and not necessarily because I want to, I want to build. And as as you learn, you know which books are BS and which books are not, and which books are actually the ones that you deserve to read, so and then also the day to day stuff that you're learning. You're learning different things through different channels, and you're also learning from experiences, from your screw ups, and that becomes a decision layer. And I cannot stress how important that decision layer is and making better decisions, because AI can give you the thoughts, yeah, I can give you the recommendations, but at the end of the day, you're the person that's going to make decision that's important for your business. And I think that's exciting, right? And I think that if you have a knowledge base, you know, that's good, that's able to make that decision, you can be at the top of the world. You can do anything, you know, because the way, the pace, the pace that you can learn. So I personally think that's just, like, really exciting. And that's something I'm learning new stuff every day as well. And I think if I'm just like, in something that I'm not learning, I'll be so bored, you know. And I always requires something just to like, you know, keep me excited, keep me like, you know, motivated of doing something right? Because I think that's what keeps you moving. So what about you? So I'm like, How's learning for you? I know, I know you've been learning coding recently. How's that going? And do you find yourself learning much faster?

Speaker 2 27:17
Yeah, and George, maybe I'll add one thing to what you were saying too. I think as these AIs are kind of coming in like, for example, when you're saying convert to an audio overview, there's this, like notebook LM, also by Google, where you can turn to a podcast, right? So I think the point is, in today's day and age, I think there's zero excuse for anyone, I don't care if you're a non technical or technical founder, to not have a full understanding of the entire horizontal layer of your business. That means that if, even if you're technical, all you did was coding, understanding finance, understanding the marketing side of things, business development, all of those things should be at the CEO level, in your breadth, for your industry. I don't think there's any excuse to be able to say, Oh, this is the only part I can focus on, and so then I'll bring it back to me, is this idea that, yeah, I've tried to now learn coding, because my background is in very traditional like accounting and finance and, like valuations, which has been good for me, for myself and my career. But then, you know, I've started understanding that, hey, as this world kind of continues onwards, I don't really view coding as, I guess, like this, like technical sense of like, need to know the language as much as, like I view it, in like, two to three years, the prompting will become the coding. So the natural language will be the coding, and so you should still be able to read what code comes out from that. And in that idea, I think it's very important for like me personally, I've started being able to see that. I can actually start reading code a little bit. I can understand it, and even if I can't really write it myself, if you were to, like, put me into a test situation, I can see when something feels wrong, and my nose can now sniff for Hey, this is this doesn't look right. And as somebody that if you want to start your own business, you should be able to do that for whatever vertical is in your horizontal for your industry.

Speaker 1 29:05
I agree. And And just to add, I think compounding is super important, right? Knowledge compounds like your your ideas compounds, right? If you learn something new every day, it compounds, and do something way better. And if you learn one new thing every day, or one new idea every day, in 100 days, you're ahead than most people on Earth, right? That's just how compounding works. And I think so what you're talking about is basically that, right? So if you learn every day that you feel you find yourself much more ahead, right, than most people on this topic. I'll

Speaker 2 29:36
say one last thing, George, and I think the perfect example is, for example, like Elon Musk, I know he's a very polarizing figure today, but his two biggest depths of knowledge was in logistics and engineering. And with that, for example, you saw x ai and be able to catch up with things such as chat GPT with such a large advantage, such a bigger balance sheet advantage, because of the fact that Elon understood, like this idea of like, what. Logistics. You saw SpaceX able to beat, like NASA's and these incumbents in such a huge rate, same with Tesla, because, like he, put these depths of knowledge together. And the idea of compounding, I think, is so important, because today feels like a shortcut that what we used to take 10 years or 10,000 hours can be much faster and much more synchronized,