Quarter-Life Capital

George Pu (00:00)
So Matt, you are just back from the Bitcoin conference in Las Vegas. I heard so many cool things about it and yeah, let us know what you've learned. Yeah, mean, honestly, I wasn't even at the conference that much, but it was a huge event, really great. They shut down the whole strip for JD Vance coming in. A lot of big names in town. But honestly, I think the biggest alpha was probably at the open source stage.

Matt (00:00)
So Matt, you're just back from the Biclone Conference in Las Vegas. I heard so many cool things about it and...

Soham Mehta (00:00)
So Matt, you're just back from the Big One Conference in Las Vegas. I've heard so many cool things about it, and yeah, let us know what you've learned.

Matt (00:07)
Yeah, us know what you've

Soham Mehta (00:09)
Yeah, I honestly I wasn't thinking about that the conference that much but it was a huge event really great They shut down the whole strip for JD Dance coming in a lot of big names in town But honestly, I think the biggest alpha was probably at the open source stage Where

you had a lot of core developers, know Just developers in the Bitcoin ecosystem in general actually talking about the things that matter to Bitcoin protocol and Bitcoin core and why we need certain upgrades But yeah overall really great

George Pu (00:24)
Core developers, know, just developers in the Bitcoin ecosystem in general, actually talking about the things that matter to Bitcoin protocol and Bitcoin Core.

why we need certain upgrades. But yeah, overall really great.

Matt (00:37)
Overall, really great.

Soham Mehta (00:39)
It's kind of funny to have a Bitcoin conference that's all about sound money right next to the gambling machines. That's all about spending your money as quickly as possible. I think it's a good venue. You've got lots of space and lots of opportunities for side events too.

Matt (00:39)
It's kind of funny to have a Bitcoin conference that's all about sound money right next to the gambling machines. That's all about, you know, spending your money as quickly as possible. But, you know, I think it's a good venue. You've got, ⁓ you know, lots of space and, you know, lots of opportunities for side events too.

George Pu (00:39)
It's kind of funny to have a Bitcoin conference that's all about sound money right next to the gambling machines. That's all about spending your money as quickly as possible. But I think it's a good venue. You've got lots of space and lots of opportunities for side events too. That's good. And how many and like which one is this one that you can like third one, fourth one?

Soham Mehta (00:57)
And which one is this one? Like third one, fourth one?

Matt (01:03)
I think I went to one in San Francisco back in 2018 or 2019 and then Miami in like 21 or 22. And then this, think this has been my third Bitcoin magazine conference. They've been putting out some great conferences and obviously attracted Donald Trump actually to the conference last year, which I think was a huge win. That's the first time a presidential candidate has ever been to a Bitcoin conference.

Soham Mehta (01:03)
I think I went to one in San Francisco back in 2018 or 2019 and then Miami in like 2021 or 2022 and then this I think is my third Bitcoin Magazine conference. They've been putting out some great conferences and obviously attracted Donald Trump actually to the conference last year which I think was huge win. That's the first time.

George Pu (01:03)
I think I went to one in San Francisco back in 2018 or 2019 and then Miami in like 21 or 22 and then this I think this has been my third.

Bitcoin magazine conference. They've been putting out some great conferences and obviously attracted Donald Trump actually to the conference last year, which I think was a huge win. That's the first time a presidential candidate has ever been to a Bitcoin conference.

Soham Mehta (01:29)
you know, presidential candidate has ever been to a Bitcoin conference.

Matt (01:33)
A lot of people ⁓ kind of disagreed with his speech at the time, but I think it is a monumental occasion for sure.

George Pu (01:33)
A lot of people kind of disagree with his speech at the time, but I think it is a monumental occasion for sure. That's interesting.

Soham Mehta (01:34)
You know, a lot of people, you know, kind of disagree with his speech at the time, but, you know, I think it is a monumental occasion for sure.

I think it's also super cool. I remember

I saw a picture like from the first ever Bitcoin conference. There's like three, four people on the stage versus with now there's like huge riots. Oh yeah, that was with Andreas Antonopoulos. He did a Bitcoin conference back in like 2012 or something and was explaining Bitcoin to people. He's a guy who spent a lot of time just educating people on Bitcoin. then, yeah, it's like, you know, nobody showed up. And yeah, if you had showed up and you bought a little Bitcoin, you would have been incredibly rich.

George Pu (01:45)
saw a picture from the first ever Bitcoin conference. There's like three, four people on the stage. Versus now there's like huge riots. Oh yeah, that was with Andreas Antonopoulos. So he started, he did a Bitcoin conference back in like 2012 or something and was explaining Bitcoin to people. He's a guy who spent a lot of time just educating people on Bitcoin and then, yeah, it's like nobody showed up and yeah, if you had showed up and you bought a little Bitcoin you would have been incredibly rich.

Matt (01:45)
saw a picture from the first ever Bitcoin conference. There's like three, four people on the stage versus what now there's like huge rides.

Oh yeah, that was with Andreas Antonopoulos. So he started, he did a Bitcoin conference back in like 2012 or something and was explaining Bitcoin to people. He's a guy who spent a lot of time just educating people on Bitcoin and then, yeah, it's like, you know, nobody showed up and yet if you had shown up and you bought a little Bitcoin, you would have been incredibly rich.

So, you know, just goes to show, you know, focus on...

George Pu (02:12)
So, you know, it just goes to show.

Soham Mehta (02:12)
So, you know, it just goes to show, you know, focus on

George Pu (02:15)
focus on the

Soham Mehta (02:16)
the signal, focus on like the actual, you know, aspects of Bitcoin itself, the protocol, how it works, you know. The price at the end of the day is noise. We all know Bitcoin's eventually going to go to, you know, a million, $30 billion, but it's going to take time. And in the meantime, you know, it's the code and it's the people running it that matter at end of the day.

Matt (02:16)
Focus on the signal, focus on the actual aspects of Bitcoin itself, the protocol, how it works. The price at the end of the day is noise. We all know Bitcoin's eventually gonna go to a million, $13 million, but it's gonna take time. And in the meantime, it's the code and it's the people running it that matter at the end of the day.

George Pu (02:17)
signal, focus on the actual aspects of Bitcoin itself, the protocol, how it works. The price at end of the day is noise. We all know Bitcoin's eventually going to go to a million, $13 million, but it's going to take time. in the meantime, it's the code and it's the people running it that matter at the end of the day.

And what are some of the new stuff, Matt, that you say you have learned from the conference? Because I heard there are many things that they announced this year and some are new things that they announced. Yeah, new things? Not too much. mean, I think there was a good continued covenant discussion, right? So what is the next software to Bitcoin going to be? How are we going to secure our Bitcoin?

Soham Mehta (02:40)
What are some of your stuff that you take out of the conference? I heard there are new things that have been announced this year and some are new things that have been announced. Yeah, new things? Not too much. I think there was a good continued conversation. So what is the next big one going to be? How are we going to secure Bitcoin for

Matt (02:44)
that have been announced this year and some of the new things that have been announced? Yeah, new things? Not too much. I mean, I think there was a good continued covenant discussion, right? So what is the next software to Bitcoin going to be? How are we going to secure our Bitcoin, you

George Pu (03:01)
you know, for the next hundred years, there was the whole, you know, all return debate, which was basically like, okay, ⁓ do we consider data that goes on the blockchain to be spam or is that totally fine?

Matt (03:01)
know, for the next hundred years? There was the whole, you know, op return debate, which was basically like, okay, do we consider data that goes on the blockchain to be spam or is that totally fine?

Soham Mehta (03:01)
the next 100 years? There's the whole...

You know ⁓

George Pu (03:14)
There's a big discussion around, you know, well, there's not, on one hand, we're worried about spam on the blockchain. the other hand, there isn't a lot of actual block space being ⁓ used up. ⁓ you know,

Matt (03:14)
There's a big discussion around, ⁓ you know, well, there's not, on one hand, we're worried about spam on the blockchain. On the other hand, there isn't a lot of actual block space being ⁓ used up. You know.

fees are super low right now, which has its pros and cons. And then I think there were just a couple other announcements.

George Pu (03:27)
fees are super low right now, which has its pros and cons. And then I think there were just a couple other announcements.

Soham Mehta (03:34)
announcements

I know I've striked in some announcements they were super stoked about getting there I think they picked up back loans, pollution, out and running and obviously we had Ross Holbrook you know the guy who was in jail for 11 years from the Stoke Road

George Pu (03:34)
know like Stripe did some announcements. They were super stoked about getting their Bitcoin back loan solution out and running.

Matt (03:34)
I know like Strike did some announcements. They were super stoked about getting their Bitcoin back loan solution out and running. And then obviously we had Ross Ulbricht, you know, the guy who was in jail for 11 years from the Silk Road, you know, from being, you know, basically having two life sentences plus 40 years.

George Pu (03:42)
And then obviously we had Ross Albrecht, the guy who was in jail for 11 years from the Silk Road, from basically having two life sentences plus 40 years

Soham Mehta (03:50)
You know, from being, you know, basically having two life sentences plus 40 years

George Pu (03:55)
to actually speaking at the Bitcoin conference. It really was a monumental moment for libertarians and Bitcoiners alike. And I would say also there was several individuals at the conference that would not be there if it was not for the current administration.

Soham Mehta (03:55)
to actually speaking at the Bitcoin conference, you know, it really was a monumental moment for libertarians and Bitcoiners alike. And I would say also there were several individuals at the conference that would not be here if it was not for the current administration. Right.

Matt (03:55)
to actually speaking at the Bitcoin conference, you know, it really was a monumental moment for libertarians and Bitcoiners alike. And I would say also there was several individuals at the conference that would not be there if it was not for the current administration. Right? A

George Pu (04:11)
A perfect example is Ross Albrook. Another one is Paolo, the CEO of Tether. And the third one would be Justin Sun from Tron.

Soham Mehta (04:12)
That perfect example is Ross Elbrook. Another one is Paolo, the CEO of Tether. And the third one would be Justin Sun from Tron.

Matt (04:12)
perfect example is Ross Albrook. Another one is Paolo, the CEO of Tether. And the third one would be Justin Sun from Tron.

George Pu (04:20)
I think for some time he was the... ⁓

Matt (04:20)
⁓ I think for some time he was the ⁓ ambassador to one of the Caribbean islands. So he had diplomatic immunity, but that was removed. ⁓ But other than the Trump administration, he was able to actually come and speak. actually went to one of the events. I think I was the only non-Asian there and everyone was speaking Mandarin. So my buddy had to translate for me, but that was fun.

Soham Mehta (04:20)
I think for some time he was the ambassador to one of the Caribbean islands, so he had diplomatic immunity, but that was removed. But other than the Tron-indigenous-strange-shit, he was able to actually come and speak. I actually went to one of the events, I think I was the only non-Asian there, and everyone was speaking Mandarin, so my buddy had to translate for me, but that was fun.

George Pu (04:23)
the ambassador to one of the Caribbean islands. So he had diplomatic immunity, but that was removed. so, but other than Trump administration, he was able to actually come and speak. I actually went to one of the events. I think I was the only non-Asian there and everyone was speaking Mandarin. So my buddy had to translate for me, but that was fun.

That's pretty good. Yeah. think, I think a lot of things. So I actually went to Qatar as well. And the consensus I had there was like, you know, Qatar economic forum was most people are there are either 40s and 50s.

Soham Mehta (04:42)
Yeah, think a lot of it so I actually went to a guitar as well

consensus I had there was like, you know, most people there are in their 40s

Matt (04:50)
know, guitar is not for most people.

Soham Mehta (04:53)
or 50s, know, I think sinks back to our thoughts. you know, I don't really see that many young people in Qatar, economic forum for that sort of traditional finance conference. What did you see in Vegas as a mostly young people? And what do you think it means for the young generation? I think the young generation, would say the most mostly folks in their 30s, 30s and 40s, like I

George Pu (04:53)
You know which I think sinks back to our pod. It's like, you know I don't really see them any young people in Qatar Economic Forum for that those sort of a traditional finance conference What did you see in Vegas as they're mostly young people? And what do you think it means for like young generation? think the young generation I would say the most mostly folks in their 30s 30s and 40s I would

Matt (04:54)
Which think sinks back to our pop. I don't really see that many young people in Qatar, economic forum, that sort of traditional finance conference. What did you see in Vegas as a mostly young people and what do you think it means for young generation? I think the young generation, I would say the most mostly folks in their 30s, 30s and 40s. I would

Soham Mehta (05:18)
Bitcoin is one of those things where there was a lot of young people into it like a decade ago and

Matt (05:18)
say Bitcoin is one of those things where there was a lot of young people into it like a decade ago.

George Pu (05:18)
say Bitcoin is one of those things where there there was a lot of young people into it like a decade ago

Matt (05:23)
And those people grew up, right? You had them basically grow up to now become in their thirties. Like those that were working on it in their twenties doing Bitcoin core development are now in their thirties. And so there's a lot of folks in that. I would say like myself, like I'm one of the younger people at the conference. and so yeah, I would like to see more. I would like to see more kind of younger folks like getting into Bitcoin.

George Pu (05:24)
And those people grew up, right? You had them basically grow up to now become in their thirties. Like those that were working on it in their twenties doing Bitcoin core development are now in their thirties. And so there's a lot of folks in that. would say like myself, like I'm one of the younger people at the conference. Um, and so yeah, I would like to see more. I would like to see more kind of younger folks like getting into Bitcoin.

Soham Mehta (05:24)
Those people grew up right you had them basically grow up to now become in their 30s like those that were working on it in their 20s doing Bitcoin core development are now in their 30s so there's a lot of folks that I would say like myself I got one of the younger people at the conference and so Yeah, I would like to see more. I would like to see more younger folks like getting into Bitcoin

I think what's going on is a lot of younger folks are getting into more alternative things. They're getting into more interesting new cryptocurrencies, like the Polkadots, the Ethereum, the Solanas of the world. There's a lot of younger folks in their 20s that are getting into those things. And Bitcoin is kind of seen as a mover point. It's not seen as a new thing anymore. And I think that's unfortunate because I think most of those other points in the very long term are going to have a hard time competing against Bitcoin just as a store of value.

Matt (05:48)
I think what's going on is a lot of younger folks are getting into more like alternative things, like they're getting into, you know, more interesting new cryptocurrencies, right? Like the polka dots, the Ethereum's, the Solanas of the world. There's a lot of like younger folks in their twenties that are getting into those things. And Bitcoin is kind of seen as boomer coin. It's not seen as the new thing anymore. And I think that's unfortunate because I think, you know, most of those other coins in the very long term are going to have a hard time competing against Bitcoin just as a store of value.

George Pu (05:48)
I think what's going on is a lot of younger folks are getting into more like alternative things. Like they're getting into, you know, more interesting new cryptocurrencies, right? Like the polka dots, the Ethereum's, the Solana's of the world. There's a lot of like younger folks in their twenties that are getting into those things. And Bitcoin is kind of seen as a boomer coin. It's not seen as the new thing anymore. And I think that's unfortunate because I think, you know, most of those other coins in the very long term are going to have a hard time competing against Bitcoin just as a store of value.

But I

Soham Mehta (06:18)
But I

Matt (06:18)
think at the end of day, the folks that are really kind of into all those other coins, they do hold a little bit of Bitcoin. And so it's just about, hey, how can we convince them to hold a little bit more at the end of the day? And I think, Shivan, don't you see one perspective they might have is that, you

George Pu (06:18)
think

Soham Mehta (06:18)
think at end of the day, folks that are really kind of into all those other points, they do hold a little bit of Bitcoin. And so it's just about, how can we convince them to hold a little bit more at the end of the day? And I think shouldn't, don't you see, one perspective they might have is that, maybe you got into Bitcoin.

George Pu (06:18)
at end of the day the folks that are you know really Kind of into all those other coins like they do hold a little bit of Bitcoin and so it's just about hey How can we convince them to hold a little bit more at end of the day? and I think shouldn't don't you see like One perspective they might have is like ⁓ you know Matt you maybe you got into Bitcoin Many many years ago when it was still cheap, right? So if I'm a young person, I just graduated from high school Bitcoin is a hundred thousand dollars, ⁓ know what for young person a hundred thousand dollars

Matt (06:38)
many many years ago when it was still cheap. So if I'm a young person, just graduated from high school, Bitcoin is $100,000. For a young person, $100,000 is

Soham Mehta (06:38)
many many years ago when it was still cheap. So if I'm a young person, I just graduated from high school, is at $100,000. For a young person, $100,000

is a lot of money. And I take a lot of interest in one Bitcoin. Well I would just like, I think this is big problem too, is like the visibility, right? People have this idea at the back of their head that Ethereum is cheaper, Solana is cheaper, it's only 100 bucks, it's only 2,000 bucks. Bitcoin is infinitely, not infinitely, disvisible, but it's very invisible. can divide it into hundreds of hundreds.

George Pu (06:47)
a lot of money and it might take a while to get to just like one Bitcoin. Yeah. Well, I would just like, think this is a big problem too is like the visibility, right? People have this idea in the back of their head that, you know, Ethereum is cheaper and Solana is cheaper because it's only a hundred bucks. only 2000 bucks. Bitcoin is infinitely, not infinitely disvisible, but it's very divisible.

Matt (06:47)
a lot of money. And might take a while to get to just one Bitcoin.

Yeah. Well, I would just like, I think this is a big problem too, is like divisibility, right? People have this idea in the back of their head that, you know, Ethereum is cheaper and Solana is cheaper because it's only a hundred bucks. It's only 2000 bucks. Bitcoin is infinitely, not infinitely disvisible, but it's very divisible. can, you know, divide it into units of a hundred,

George Pu (07:06)
you know, divided into units of 100,000,

Soham Mehta (07:08)
hundred thousand there's a thousand it's about a thousand Satoshi's for every dollar right now right so you can buy big two cents worth of Bitcoin you can buy one cent verticals of Bitcoin that's about ten sats ⁓

Matt (07:09)
hundred thousand. There's a thousand, it's about a thousand Satoshis for every dollar right now. Right? So you can buy 50 cents worth of Bitcoin.

George Pu (07:10)
there's a thousand, it's about a thousand Satoshis for every dollar right now, right? So you can buy 50 cents worth of Bitcoin. You can buy one cent worth of Bitcoin. That's about 10 sats. So I wouldn't be worried too much about the, in fact, if you think about it that way, Bitcoin is still cheap because for a single dollar, you can still get a thousand sats, a thousand of the base unit of Bitcoin. And so I wouldn't worry too much about that. Bitcoin is a hundred thousand dollars. We're still early.

Matt (07:17)
You can buy one cent worth of Bitcoin. That's about 10 Sats. So I wouldn't be worried too much about that. In fact, if you think about it that way, Bitcoin is still cheap because for a single dollar, you can still get a thousand Sats, a thousand of the base unit of Bitcoin. And so I wouldn't worry too much about that. Bitcoin is a hundred thousand dollars. We're still early.

Soham Mehta (07:21)
So I wouldn't worry too much about that. In fact, if you think about it that way, Bitcoin's still cheap because for a single dollar, you still get a thousand stats, a thousand out of the base unit of Bitcoin. And so I wouldn't worry too much about that. Bitcoin's $100,000. We're still early.

George Pu (07:36)
Bitcoin still in the long term is going to go to a million. It's going to go to 13 million. It's just about like, you know, buying it and waiting for the next four, eight, 12 years. And I know that sounds really hard and I know that requires like a lot of patience.

Matt (07:36)
Bitcoin is still in the long term is going to go to a million. It's going to go to 13 million. It's just about like

Soham Mehta (07:36)
Bitcoin's still in the long run. It's going to go to a million. It's going to go to 13 million. It's just about buying it and waiting for the next four or eight, 12 years. And I know that sounds really hard and I know that requires a lot of patience.

Matt (07:42)
you know, buying it and waiting for the next four, eight, 12 years. And I know that sounds really hard and I know that requires like a lot of patience.

Soham Mehta (07:51)
But I do think it's still on track to outperform S &P 500, to outperform basically any asset that's been in existence, to outperform gold in the long term. I do believe that gold, Bitcoin, is a better store of value at the end of the day than gold because it is the most scarce asset, whereas gold,

Matt (07:51)
But I do think it's still on track to outperform, you know, S &P 500 to outperform basically any asset that's been in existence to outperform gold in long term. I do believe that Bitcoin is a better store of value at the end of the day than gold because it is, you know, it is the most scarce asset. Whereas gold,

George Pu (07:51)
But I do think it's still on track to outperform, you know, S &P 500 to outperform basically any asset that's been in existence to outperform gold in long term. I do believe that Bitcoin is a better store of value at the end of the day than gold.

because it is the most scarce asset, whereas gold,

you'll always be able to mine more of it at end of the day.

Soham Mehta (08:11)
you'll always be able to mine more of it at the end of the day. Right, yeah. And how do you think, Matt, being the younger person?

Matt (08:11)
you'll always be able to mine more of it at the end of the day.

George Pu (08:15)
Right. Yeah, and how do you think Matt like being like, know the younger person

in a room and I'll go to so I'm right after because This time when I was in when I was in Doha was in Qatar It certainly does feel that you know being like this young does carry a little bit of weight to you when everyone around you is like kind of like more more established and you know, like older than you right so I guess like okay. How do you how do you think of that yourself? Good you first and then so like how do you how do you break in? Like how do you set yourself apart?

Matt (08:21)
And this time what

Soham Mehta (08:21)
This time I was gonna put on-

It certainly does feel that being this young does carry a little bit weight to you when everyone around you is more established and older than you. So I guess how do you think about that?

Matt (08:24)
Certainly does feel that you know being like this young does carry a little bit weight to you when everyone around you is like kind of like more and more established and you know, like older than you, right? I guess like how do you think about yourself? Like how do you how do you break in like how do you set yourself apart you

Soham Mehta (08:41)
How do break in? How do you respect yourself in part?

George Pu (08:44)
Yeah, how do you how do you acknowledge that? Okay, like I'm like 10 years I'm 20 years younger than those folks and you know, it's like sort of like a gap that you have to like cross over Maybe I'm not sure if that's necessarily true for Bitcoin just saying like in general I think for those conferences and events. Well, I always feel that there's a certain divide between Like the devs and the non-devs and I think there's certainly a Kind of an aspect of there's a

Matt (08:44)
mean? Yeah, how do you how do you acknowledge that? like I'm like 10 years and 20 years younger than those folks and like sort of like a gap that you have to like cross over

Soham Mehta (08:45)
How do you acknowledge that? I'm 20 years younger than those folks and it's sort of like a gap that you have to cross over. Maybe, I'm not sure if that's necessarily true for Bitcoin. Just in general, think, for those conferences and events. I always feel that there is a certain divide between the dads and the non-dads. I think there's certainly an aspect that there's

Matt (08:54)
Maybe I'm not sure that's necessarily true for Bitcoin. Just think like in general, think for those conferences and events. Well, I always feel that there's a certain divide between like the devs and the non-devs. And I think there's certainly a kind of an aspect of there's a

Soham Mehta (09:09)
higher level of technical knowledge for those that are younger than those that are older. And there's exceptions to this. Some of the best Bitcoin core decks are in their 40s, 50s. And so

George Pu (09:09)
higher level of technical knowledge for those that are younger

Matt (09:09)
higher level of technical knowledge for those that are younger than those that are older. Right. So those that are older that are in and there's exceptions to this. Right. Some of the best Bitcoin core devs are, you know, in their 40s, 50s. And so

George Pu (09:14)
that are older that are and there's exceptions to this right some of the best Bitcoin Core devs are you know in their 40s 50s and so

Soham Mehta (09:23)
it's

George Pu (09:23)
it's just a situation about like kind of finding common ground I think a lot of the older folks in Bitcoin are more looking at it from an economic

Matt (09:23)
It's just a situation about like kind of finding common ground. I think a lot of the older folks in Bitcoin are more looking at it from an economic perspective, right? So what is the, what are the libertarian aspects that they like about it? What are the economic aspects that they like about it? What do they like about the scarcity?

Soham Mehta (09:24)
just a situation about finding common ground. I think a lot of the older folks in Bitcoin are more looking at it from an economic perspective. So what are the libertarian aspects that they like about it? What are the economic aspects that they like about it? What do they like about the scarcity?

George Pu (09:31)
perspective, right? So what is the, what are the libertarian aspects that they like about it? What are the economic aspects that they like about it? What do they like about the scarcity?

Matt (09:38)
What do they like about the adoption that's occurring with things like MicroStrategy and other Bitcoin treasury companies? ⁓ And so...

George Pu (09:38)
What do they like about the adoption that's occurring with things like MicroStrategy and other Bitcoin treasury companies? ⁓ And so, you know, it's really coming from that different mindset, but I think even more than age, I don't really think age is actually the biggest kind of divider, you know, in the room. It's more about where are you coming from and then everyone coming together and focusing on Bitcoin. You might come from a

Soham Mehta (09:38)
What are they like with the adoption that's occurring with things like MicroStrategy and other Bitcoin treasury companies? ⁓ And so, you know, it's really coming from that different mindset. But I think even more than age, I don't really think age is actually the biggest kind of divider, you know, in the room. It's more about where are you coming from and then everyone coming together and focusing on Bitcoin. You might come from a libertarian

Matt (09:46)
you it's really coming from that, different mindset. But I think even more than age, I don't really think age is actually the biggest kind of divider, you know, in the room. It's more about where, where are you coming from? And then everyone coming together and focusing on Bitcoin. You might come from a libertarian

George Pu (10:01)
You might come from Wall Street, you might be a developer, ⁓ you might be in the energy sector, right? You might be working on flare gas and doing something with Bitcoin from mining, right? You might be doing stuff with hardware.

Matt (10:01)
background. You might come from, from wall street. You might be a developer. ⁓ you might be in the energy sector, right? You might be working on flare gas, and, doing something with Bitcoin from mining, right? You might be doing stuff with hardware.

Soham Mehta (10:01)
background. You might come from Wall Street. You might be a developer. You might be in the energy sector, right? You might be working on

Flare gas and doing something with Bitcoin for mining, right? You might be doing stuff with hardware.

George Pu (10:15)
I got the opportunity to tour actually a Bitcoin mining company, or not a Bitcoin mining but a

Matt (10:15)
I got the opportunity to tour actually a Bitcoin mining comp- or not a Bitcoin mining but a Bitcoin mining-

Soham Mehta (10:15)
I got the opportunity to tour actually a Bitcoin mining company, or not a Bitcoin mining company, but Bitcoin mining basic manufacturing company based in Silicon Valley that's actually building ships in America, you know, kind of for the first time basically. So you might be coming from that background. So there's many different backgrounds that everyone's coming from.

George Pu (10:20)
Bitcoin mining, ASIC, a manufacturing company based in Silicon Valley that's actually building chips in America, you know, kind of for the first time basically. So you might be coming from that background. So there's many different backgrounds that everyone's coming from and

Matt (10:22)
ASIC manufacturing company based in Silicon Valley that's actually building chips in America, you know, kind of for the one for the first time, basically. ⁓ So you might be coming from that background. So there's many different backgrounds that everyone's coming from

and everyone's coming to these conferences and they're learning from each other and they're finding out, okay, where, where, where are the gaps in my knowledge missing where I might be missing something on the libertarian aspect or someone else might be missing something on the, on the, ⁓

Soham Mehta (10:38)
And everyone's coming to these conferences and they're learning from each other and they're finding out, okay, where are the gaps in my knowledge missing? Where I might be missing something on the libertarian aspect or someone else might be missing something on the

George Pu (10:38)
everyone's coming to these conferences and they're learning from each other and they're finding out, where are the gaps in my knowledge missing? Where I might be missing something on the libertarian aspect or someone else might be missing something on

on the

Matt (10:52)
⁓ on the technical side and so I think it's really great to fill in that knowledge.

George Pu (10:52)
technical side. And so I think it's really great to fill in that knowledge. Soham, yeah, let's also talk more about some of the conferences that you've been, right? Because in the business world, I'm sure, I went to Economic Forum, which is more about economics and macroeconomics and global trade. Whereas Soham, you might go to some of the conferences. Which are the ones that you've just been to? I've been to some arbitration conferences, things more on litigation-specific places.

Soham Mehta (10:52)
technical side. And so I think it's really great to fill in that knowledge.

in the race and global trade. you might go to some of the conferences. Which ones are you most excited to go

George Pu (11:20)
And I will say, just in general, think almost all conferences you go to, like people that are flying out to different cities around the world, they'll be

Matt (11:20)
And I will say just in general, I almost all conferences you go to like people that are flying out to like different cities around the world, they'll be people

with more capital, so those people, I think that's just like a common aspect. And Bitcoin is probably one of the few one-off situations where a lot of young people are able to get into it.

Soham Mehta (11:37)
I mean like even like early 30s would still be considered young right in a space like this And the aspect to really start thinking about is like what Matt was saying is yeah Bitcoin being the boomer coin quote-unquote I don't think that's the way people think but I think Bitcoin is kind of like become as crypto as like a Investment vehicle has become bigger Bitcoin is kind of the market return and so if you want to beat the market you go for more risky things right I think back like 10 15 years ago people would buy penny stocks people would buy just like

Matt (11:39)
still be considered young, right? In a space like this. And the aspect to really start thinking about is like what Matt was saying is, yeah, Bitcoin being the boomer coin, don't think that's the way people think, but I think Bitcoin has kind of like become as crypto as like an investment vehicle has become bigger, Bitcoin is kind of the market return. And so if you want to beat the market, you go for more.

George Pu (11:41)
space like this and the aspect to really start thinking about it is like what Matt was saying is yeah Bitcoin being the boomer coin I don't think that's the way people think but I Bitcoin has kind of like become as crypto as like an investment vehicle has become bigger Bitcoin is kind of the market return and so if you want to the market you go for more risky things right I think back like 10-15 years ago people would buy

Matt (12:01)
I think back like 10-15 years ago people would buy penny stocks, would buy just like

George Pu (12:06)
stocks people would buy it's like

Soham Mehta (12:07)
You'd pick specific companies you think you can beat versus the S &P 500 that was your market return, right? And so for a long time that was like your store of value as we see that shift towards Bitcoin Yeah, people still are you know, like the younger you are the more it's like confidence or delusion You have both for like the good and the bad that comes with it ⁓ but yeah, that kind of behavior is always good and bad because that's the way you get disruptive technology as well, right but

George Pu (12:07)
you pick specific companies you think you can beat versus the SMB 500 that was your market return right and so for a long time that was like your store value as we see that shift towards Bitcoin yeah people still are you know the younger you are the more it's like confidence or delusion you have both good and bad that comes with it yeah but that kind of behavior is always good and bad because that's the way you get disruptive technology as well right but I think there's good and bad

Matt (12:07)
you'd pick specific companies you think you could beat versus the SMB 500 that was your market return right and so for a long time that was like your store of value as we see that shift towards Bitcoin yeah people still are you know like the younger you are the more it's like confidence or delusion you have both like the good and the bad that comes with it yeah but yeah that kind of behavior is always good and bad because that's the way you get disruptive technology as well

Soham Mehta (12:31)
I think there's good and bad

Matt (12:31)
I think there's good and bad

Soham Mehta (12:33)
aspects to having people start experimenting with other cryptos too. And maybe one of the greatest ones would be stable coin. That's a very exciting aspect that's starting to be built in. And we're able to see the plumbing can really start being hammered together and be institutionalized so that crypto can really elevate to the next level.

Matt (12:33)
aspects to having people start experimenting with other cryptos too. And maybe one of greatest ones would be stablecoin. That's a very exciting aspect that's starting to be built in. And we're able to see the plumbing can really start being hammered together and to be institutionalized so that crypto can really elevate to a next level. Yeah, so when I was in Qatar, guess the theme I was feeling is that, okay, I'm younger than most people, which is a good thing because I have more

George Pu (12:33)
aspects to having people start experimenting with other cryptos too. And maybe one of the greatest ones would be stablecoin. That's a very exciting aspect that's starting to be built in.

to see the plumbing can really start being hammered together and to be institutionalized so that crypto can really elevate to a next level. ⁓

Matt (13:01)
time than most people, right? So there more time I can try around different things, whereas like when you're in your 50s it's kind of a luxury. And on the other hand, it's like more like a capital perspective, right? So like they have more capital than

Soham Mehta (13:11)
perspective, right? So like, have no catwalk,

George Pu (13:14)
than me, probably I'm taking a guess. They have probably more capital than me and they're probably able to allocate it much better. And we saw sovereign governments and decision makers that are able to make long-term bets who are obviously standing on a more higher level than just individuals. ⁓ So I definitely thought about this quite a lot about, as a young person, how do I break how into those conversations, into the relationships that have already

Soham Mehta (13:14)
then you probably can't make it. They have probably no catwalk, and they're probably able to allocate much better, right? And we have, we saw, you know, saw our government and decision makers that are able to make long-term bets, who are obviously standing on a more, like, hard level than just individuals, right? So I definitely think, thought about this a lot, like, a young person, how do I break out into those conversations into like the relationships that I already

Matt (13:14)
me, probably I'm taking a guess, they have probably more capital than me, and they're probably able to...

saw like you know sovereign governments and decision makers that are able to make like long-term bets who are obviously standing on a more like higher level than just like individuals right ⁓ so I definitely think thought about this quite a lot about like okay like as a young person like how do I break out into those conversations into like the relationships that have already

George Pu (13:41)
been

Soham Mehta (13:41)
happen.

George Pu (13:41)
happening.

Soham Mehta (13:42)
So that's ⁓

Matt (13:42)
So that's something I

George Pu (13:42)
So that's something I

I

Matt (13:44)
actually struggle with. When I think like for folks of that age too, they're being more risk-averse, right? So they're saying like, okay, well, you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. know, basically you should have diversification of your assets, right? You should have some in Bitcoin, some in stocks, some in real estate. But for someone who's young, like you're, kind of have an advantage in terms of having the, know, if everything goes to hell, you still got time at the end of the day, right?

George Pu (13:44)
actually quite struggle with. Yeah. Well, and I think like for folks of that age too, they're being more risk averse, right? So they're saying like, okay, well, ⁓ you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. You know, basically you should have diversification of your assets, right? You should have some in Bitcoin, some in stocks, some in real estate. But for someone who's young, like you're, kind of have an advantage in terms of having the, you know, if, everything goes to hell, you still got time at the end of the day. Right. So if you go all in on Bitcoin,

Soham Mehta (14:12)
If you go all in on Bitcoin, authentically,

Matt (14:12)
If you go all in on Bitcoin, hypothetically,

George Pu (14:13)
hypothetically and that works out for you then great. If it doesn't, well you still have time to rebuild. So you you're able to take those higher risks you know earlier in your career ⁓ and so like why not? Why not take those risks? ⁓ If you die tomorrow ⁓

Matt (14:14)
⁓ and that works out for you, then great. If it doesn't, well, you still have time to rebuild. So, you you're able to take those higher risks, you know, earlier in your career. ⁓ And so, like, why not? Why not take those risks? ⁓ If you die tomorrow, it doesn't matter anyway. ⁓ But if you're going to live until you're 80 years old, you might as well take those risks.

Soham Mehta (14:15)
and that works out for you then great. If it doesn't, well you still have time to rebuild. So you're able to take those higher risks earlier in your career. And so why not? Why not take those risks? Even if you die tomorrow...

George Pu (14:34)
doesn't matter anyway. ⁓ But if you're going to live until you're 80 years old, you might as well take those risks

Soham Mehta (14:34)
doesn't well ⁓

Matt (14:41)
And shoot for the moon. Yeah, I agree, but like so what did you say? Our society has been warning us wiring us differently with the form of like, you know media influences and things we got taught in school that the SMP 500 is the North Star and has been performing, you know ever since I don't know ever since there was dinosaurs and in that environment and also the device that you got

George Pu (14:41)
and shoot for the moon. Yeah, but I agree. like, so wouldn't you say our society has been wiring us differently with the form of like, you know, media influences and things we got taught in school that the S &P 500 is the North Star and has been performing, you know, ever since, I don't know, ever since there was dinosaurs. And in that environment, and also the device that you

from

Matt (15:04)
from your parents grandparents are vastly different than

George Pu (15:04)
your parents and grandparents are vastly different than perhaps why you would have made a decision yourself, right? So, so from your perspective, how can young people break out of that, you know, like the loop that basically traps them and just rethink about it themselves? And I think it's a good question. I think the question is much more systemic even just because of the fact that it feels like the world that kids are going to be growing up into today is so different from even like 15

Matt (15:08)
while you would have made a decision yourself, right? So, for your perspective, how can young people break out of that, you know, like the loop that basically traps them and just rethink about it themselves? Yeah, and I think it's a good question. I think the question is much more systemic even just because of the fact that it feels like the world that kids are going to be growing up into today is so different from even like

Soham Mehta (15:15)
Yeah, and I think it's a good question. I think the question is much more systemic even just because of the fact that

It feels like the world that kids are going to be growing up into today is so different from even just like 15

Matt (15:30)
15 or 20 years ago when we were growing up.

Soham Mehta (15:30)
or 20 years ago when we were growing up. I think I saw a study, the fact that right now kids, like teenagers, have like...

Matt (15:32)
saw a study, the fact that right now kids, like teenagers, have like

George Pu (15:32)
saw a study, the fact that right now kids, like teenagers, have like...

Soham Mehta (15:38)
a point one mile radius from their house or their parents because I can't kids will play video games They'll stay at home much more versus when I was a kid, know, you go into the forest You just run away from home not like they're running away from home. Just like, you know, go outside like the sun comes down and then you're back home for dinner and so it's this idea that that same exploration doesn't happen

Matt (15:38)
a .1 mile radius from their house with their parents. Because like, you kids who play video games, they'll stay at home much more. Versus when I was a kid, you know, you go into the forest, you just run away from home. Not like a running away from home. It's like, you know, you go outside till the sun comes down. And then you're back home for dinner. And so it's this idea that that same exploration doesn't happen.

George Pu (15:47)
Not like a run-work home. like, go outside until the sun comes down. And then you're back home for dinner. And so it's this idea that that same exploration doesn't happen.

Soham Mehta (15:57)
and if you just stuck like isolated and you and you're scrolling through social media You're gonna be seeing like the 1 % the 1 % you know like that one kid like Jack Dory is first person I can think of it's a twitch streamer and he's made

Matt (15:57)
And if you just stuck like isolated and you you scrolling through social media, you're to be seeing like the 1 % of the 1 % you know, that one kid like Jack Dory is first person I can think of. So Twitch streamer and he's made like millions, right? You're thinking, oh wait, no, this is so simple. And you're just gonna start comparing yourself to only this one person. You know, you're not actually living in the present in

George Pu (15:57)
And if you're just stuck, like isolated, you're through social media, you're going to be seeing like the 1 % of the 1%. You know, like that one kid, like Jack Dorley, it's the first person I can think of. It's a Twitch streamer, and he's made like millions, right? You're thinking, oh wait, no, this is so simple. And you're just going to start comparing yourself to only this one person. You're not actually living the present.

Soham Mehta (16:08)
like millions right? You're thinking wait no this is so simple and you're just gonna start comparing yourself to only this one person you know you're not actually living in the present in

the moment itself and it becomes hard especially and we've talked with so much of like like the level of inflation right now has actually been more than any point in history I can think of in the past 100 plus years and if you're in such a worrying constant tense like that where and if you're a young person you don't really dream of a home anymore

Matt (16:16)
the moment itself and it becomes hard, especially. And we've talked about it so much with like, yeah, like the level of inflation right now has actually been more than any point of issue I can think of.

George Pu (16:16)
and it becomes hard especially and we've talked about so much like the level of inflation

Matt (16:26)
a hundred plus years and if you're in such a worrying constant tense like that where and if you're a young person you don't really dream of a home anymore you

George Pu (16:27)
years and if you're in such a worrying constant tense like that where if you're a young person you don't really dream of a home anymore

you just assume that's not realistic and so you're just kind of always in like a hustle mindset it becomes hard to just turn that off and just live in the moment almost. Yeah Matt what do you think? I mean I think it's like it's pretty sad that there's enough people that are kind of in that camp of thinking

Soham Mehta (16:35)
you just assume that's not realistic. And so you're just kind of always in like a hostile mindset. It becomes hard to just turn that off and just live in the moment almost. ⁓

Matt (16:35)
just assume that's not realistic and so you're just kind of always in like a hustle mindset because hard to just turn that off and just live in the moment almost yeah I mean I think it's like it's pretty sad that there's enough people that are kind of in that camp of thinking they're never gonna own a home ⁓

It's like what caused those things? It's like low interest rates, but also just this mindset of everyone basically in society going and focusing on an investment being real estate, right? So if you have low interest rates, you have real estate being considered the investment, you have people levered up on that, well, then it's no wonder that you're gonna have a situation where your average young person isn't gonna be able to buy real estate. And I think like this really comes into looking at

George Pu (16:55)
It's like what caused those things? It's like low interest rates. ⁓ But also just this mindset of everyone, basically in society, going and focusing on investment being real estate, right? So if you have low interest rates, you have real estate being considered the investment, you have people levered up on that, well, it's no wonder that you're going to have a situation where your average young person isn't going be able to buy real estate. And I think this really comes into looking at

Soham Mehta (16:55)
It's like what caused the fact that it's like low interest rates, but also just this mindset of everyone, basically society growing and focusing on investment in real estate, right? So if you low interest rates for real estate, you're not accepting the investment, you people leprechaun that, well, it's no wonder that you're gonna have a situation where your average male person is gonna be able to buy real estate. And I think this really comes into looking at

it.

Imagine if you an optimal society. An optimal society would want to have a situation where the cost of living or the cost of housing wasn't extraordinarily high, especially for young people, especially if you want to have...

Matt (17:24)
Imagine if we had an optimal society. In an optimal society, you would want to have a situation where

George Pu (17:24)
Imagine if we had an optimal society. In an optimal society, you would want to have a situation where the cost of living or the cost of housing ⁓ wasn't exorbitantly high, especially for young people, especially if you want to have ⁓

Matt (17:31)
you know, the cost of living or the cost of housing ⁓ wasn't exorbitantly high, especially for young people, especially if you want to have, ⁓

you know, the population, the natural population of a country increased, right? We have the population rates of the birth rates of countries all around the Western world plummeting dramatically. Optimally, you would have it much higher, but a lot of people put off having kids because they can't even afford a home.

Soham Mehta (17:42)
you know, population, the natural population of our country increased, right? We have the population rates, the birth rates of countries all around the Western world, culminating dramatically. Often, we have it much higher, but a lot of people put out having kids because they can't even afford a home.

George Pu (17:43)
the population, the natural population of a country increase. We have the population rates of the birth rates of countries all around the Western world plummeting dramatically.

Optimally you have it much higher, but a lot of people put off having kids because they can't even afford a home.

Matt (18:00)
How do you think you're going to afford kids, right? And so we basically, and then we make up for the lack of natural births by having substantial immigration. And so it's like, that's not really a great situation for any society, essentially.

George Pu (18:00)
How do you think you're going to afford kids, right? And so we basically, and then we make up for the lack of, you know, natural births by having substantial immigration. And so it's like, that's not really a great situation for any society essentially. And now if we rethink this and we think, okay, well imagine if real estate was not the primary core

Soham Mehta (18:00)
How do you think you're going to afford kids, right? And so we basically, and then, then we make up for the lack of, you know, natural births by, I mean, substantial immigration. And so it's like...

That's not really a great situation for any science, essentially.

Matt (18:16)
And now if we rethink this and we think, okay, well imagine if real estate was not the primary core

Soham Mehta (18:16)
And now if we rethink this and we think, okay, well imagine if real estate was not the primary core

George Pu (18:22)
you know investment that people have. Right? The majority, like think of it, the majority of people in the Western world, their primary investment is their home. The majority of their net worth is tied up in their house, which is in my opinion insanity. If that was not the case and housing was actually cheap and the majority of your wealth was held in something like Bitcoin, then we could have a situation where more and more people are able to live closer to their work,

Soham Mehta (18:23)
investment of people. The majority of people in the Western world, their primary investment is their home. The majority of their network is tied up in their houses, is a mind-bending insanity. If that was not the case, if housing was actually changed, and the majority of your wealth was held in someone like Vic or Mike, then we could have a situation where more people are able to live closer to their work.

Matt (18:23)
investment that people had, right? The majority, like think of it, the majority of people in the Western world, their primary investment is their home. The majority of their net worth is tied up in their house, which is, in my opinion, insanity. If that was not the case and housing was actually cheap and the majority of your wealth was held in something like Bitcoin, then we could have a situation where...

more and more people are able to live closer to their work,

are able to live closer to their friends, are able to live closer to the things that they care about, and you have a sense of community that comes back instead of everyone just being focused on the investment aspect of real estate. ⁓ And I think you can actually return to normalcy in terms of ⁓ people's living standards and ⁓ the birth rates would go up. So, I mean, that's what I hope Bitcoin does long term.

George Pu (18:45)
are able to live closer to their friends, are able to live closer to the things that they care about and you have a sense of community that comes back.

Soham Mehta (18:46)
closer to the friends or you live closer to the things that they care about and you have a set of community that comes back instead of everyone just being focused on the investment aspect of real estate. And I think you can actually return to normalcy in terms of you know people's living standards and the birth rates would go up. So I mean that's what I Bitcoin does long term. And

George Pu (18:52)
instead of everyone just being focused on the investment aspect of real estate. And I think you can actually return to normalcy in terms of ⁓ people's living standards and ⁓ the birth rates would go up. I mean, that's what I Bitcoin does long term.

Soham Mehta (19:11)
one thing I'll say also is just the idea that if

George Pu (19:11)
One thing I'll say also is just the idea that if your house is more than just... If your house stops being your utility value plus this like store of value...

Matt (19:12)
also is just the idea that if your house is more than just if your house stops being your utility value plus this like store of value

Soham Mehta (19:15)
your house is more than just, if your house stops being your utility value plus it's like store of value

Matt (19:21)
and it goes discounts back to utility value we could also start expanding horizontally I feel like it's a lot of urban cities now are only expanding vertically you'll have like higher and higher condos and things like that because like the risk to be able to build

Soham Mehta (19:21)
and it goes discounts back to utility value.

George Pu (19:21)
and it goes discounts back to utility value. We could also start expanding horizontally. I feel like it's a lot of urban cities now are only expanding vertically. You'll have like higher and higher condos and things like that because like the risk to be able to build away

Soham Mehta (19:24)
We could also start expanding horizontally. feel like it's a lot of urban cities now are only expanding vertically. You'll have like higher and higher condos and things like that because like the risk to be able to like build

away from like a major metropolitan is becoming too much versus, know, for a fact, a small little like shoe box condo can sell for over half a million in Toronto specifically. know that for a fact. ⁓

George Pu (19:35)
from like a major metropolitan is becoming too much versus, know, for a fact, this small little like shoebox condo can sell for over half a million in Toronto specifically. I mean, that's for a fact.

Matt (19:37)
is becoming too much versus you know for a fact this small little like shoebox condo can sell for over half a million.

in Toronto specifically, I know that profile. Well, it's insane in Toronto too because basically like the cost that people are willing to pay is lower than the cost of development now, which is

George Pu (19:46)
Well, what's insane in Toronto too, because basically like the cost that people are willing to pay is lower than the cost of development now, which is

Soham Mehta (19:54)
why

Matt (19:54)
why all these developers are taking shortcuts all along, Like certain condos only have heating or only have cooling at any one time because they didn't take the extra work to put in both of them, right? It's just ridiculous.

George Pu (19:54)
why

Soham Mehta (19:54)
all these developers are taking you know shortcuts all right like certain gondos only have eating or only have pooping at any one time because they didn't you know take the extra work to put in both of them right it's just ridiculous

George Pu (19:54)
all these developers are taking, you know, shortcuts all along, right? Like certain condos only have heating or only have cooling at any one time because they didn't, you know, take the extra work to put in both of them, right? This is just ridiculous. And you have all this red tape that exists in government that's, you know, before you even start building anything, it's like four

Soham Mehta (20:09)
And then we have to drop all this red tape that exists in government that's, you know, before you even start building anything, it's like $400,000

Matt (20:09)
And you have all this red tape that exists in government that's, you know, before you even start building anything, it's like

$400,000 of red tape for an environmental assessment, for an assessment of the roadways, assessment of all these different things that contractors are getting paid out to do. And it's like, okay, well, where as a society do you find that balance? Yeah. And I think, Matt, like what is the solution, I guess, Matt first, and then so on. Like what is the solution to all these like...

George Pu (20:17)
$400,000 of red tape for an environmental assessment for an assessment of the roadways assessment of all these different things that Contractors are getting paid out to do and it's like okay. Well, we're as a society. Do you find that balance? Yeah, and I think my like what is the solution? I guess the math first and then so I'm like what is the solution to all these like

Soham Mehta (20:17)
of red tape for an environmental assessment, for an assessment of roadways, assessment of all these different things that contractors are getting paid up to do. And it's like, where as a society do you find that balance? Yeah, and I think, is the solution, I guess, for the math person in Soho?

What is the solution to all these problems?

George Pu (20:37)
problems because like it's not it's not something that just happened in that last like five years I think it's been like more systemic it's been like at least the past ten years or more and I think like for young

Matt (20:37)
It's not something that just happened in the last five years. I think it's been more systemic. It's been at least the past ten years or more. And I think for young people, the question shouldn't just be between leaving and not leaving.

Soham Mehta (20:37)
It's not something that's happened in the last five years. I think it's been more systemic. It's been at least the past ten years or more. And I think for young people, the question shouldn't just be between leaving and not leaving.

George Pu (20:46)
people the question shouldn't just be between leaving and not leaving you

know like leaving I guess I can see the benefits of it right but obviously it's not for everybody and if you're not leaving like how can you actually make a difference how can you tell the government or the people in charge that you know listen to us like we actually make it we actually we're actually important like don't ignore us and you know do the other way ⁓

Soham Mehta (20:51)
Like leaving, I guess I can see the benefits of it. Obviously it's not for everybody. And if you're not leaving, how can you actually make a difference? How can you tell the government or the people in charge that, you know, listen to us, we're actually important. Like, don't ignore us and do the other way. I don't think government solves it. Why does government have to solve stuff? ⁓

Matt (20:51)
Leaving, I guess I can see the benefits of it. But obviously it's not for everybody. And if you're not leaving, how can you actually make a difference? How can you tell the government or the people in charge that, listen to us, we're actually important. Don't ignore us.

I don't think government solves it. When has government ever solved something? ⁓ When has,

you know, if you just go, and I think that's actually like a problem in society, right? If society is just like, ⁓ government's going to solve this problem for me, then it never gets solved because you're just going to sit there and you're going to push for the election of some politician that's going to promise X, Y, Z thing, and then they don't end up doing it. Right. And so

George Pu (21:16)
You know, if you just go ahead, and I think that's actually like a problem in society, right? If society is just like, ⁓ government's going to solve this problem for me, then they never get solved because you're just going to sit there and you're going to push for the election of some politician that's going to promise X, Y, thing, and then they don't end up doing it, right? And so I

Soham Mehta (21:16)
you know, if you just go, and I think that's actually the problem with society, right? If society's just like, ⁓ government's gonna solve this problem for me, then...

They never get solved because you're just going to sit there and you're going to push for the election of some politician that's going to promise x, z, a, and then they don't end up doing it. Right? And so

Matt (21:36)
⁓ I don't know what the solution is. maybe it's like I think in general if you just reduce the size of government and you have more things that are done privately or more things that are done through donations or ⁓ if there's actually an incentive for things to be built then ⁓

Soham Mehta (21:36)
I don't know what the solution is. maybe it's like, think in general, you just reduce the style of government, you have more things that are done privately or more things that are done through donations or if there's actually an incentive for things to be built, that's a better place to come from. You know, I think an example of this is people always say,

George Pu (21:37)
don't know what the solution is. maybe it's like, I think in general, if you just reduce the size of government, you have more things that are done.

privately or more things that are done for donations or ⁓ if there's actually an incentive for things to be built then then that's a better place to come from you know I think an example of this is people always say

Matt (21:51)
then that's a better place to come from. You know, I think an example of this is people always say,

well, who's going to build the roads, right? Like this is like the libertarian anarcho-capitalist, right? Like mindset. you can't have a libertarian society. You can't have an anarcho-capitalist society because who's going to build the roads? Well, maybe if there's enough incentives, then people would figure out how to take the invention of the reinvention of Roman ⁓ roads.

George Pu (21:54)
well who's going to build the roads right like this is like the libertarian anarcho-capitalist right like mindset ⁓ you can't have a libertarian society you can't have an anarcho-capitalist society because who's going to build the roads well maybe there's enough incentives then people would figure out how to take the invention of

Soham Mehta (21:55)
who's going to build the roads, right? Like this is like the libertarian act of capitalism. Like, can't...

society because who's going to build the roads? Well, maybe if there's enough incentives, then people would figure out how to the invention of the reinvention of Roman

George Pu (22:14)
the reinvention of Roman roads

Soham Mehta (22:17)
⁓ roads

George Pu (22:18)
that rebuild themselves. The limestone literally rebuilds themselves and we would have companies that are set up like building roads like that. But there's not really incentive for that because the government wouldn't even want that today because it would eliminate jobs, right? So we have this insane like incentive systems in place. ⁓ And I think it's also like that we need to like

Soham Mehta (22:19)
that rebuild themselves, the limestone literally rebuilds themselves and we would have companies that are set up like building roads like that. But there's not really incentive for that because the government wouldn't even want that today because it would eliminate jobs, right? So we have this insane like incentive systems in place. And I think it's also like that we need to like

Matt (22:19)
that rebuild themselves, the limestone literally rebuilds themselves, and we would have companies that are set up like building roads like that. But there's not really incentive for that because the government wouldn't even want that today because it would eliminate jobs. So we have this insane incentive systems in place. And I think it's also like that we need to upgrade

George Pu (22:39)
Upgrade as a society, right? Like maybe, you know, you know, just as an example 300 years ago

Soham Mehta (22:39)
upgrade as a society, right? Like maybe, you know, just as an example, 300 years ago,

Matt (22:40)
as a society maybe. Just as an example, 300 years ago,

George Pu (22:46)
if

Soham Mehta (22:46)
if you had gone to someone from the South and you had said, you know, we're going to need to eliminate slavery, they would have said, it's not economically feasible, we can't do it. Well, that didn't really matter because it was not...

Matt (22:46)
If you had gone to someone from the South and you had said, ⁓ you know, we're going to need to eliminate slavery. They would have said, it's not economically feasible. We can't do it. Well, that didn't really matter because it was not.

George Pu (22:47)
you had gone to someone from the South and you had said You know, we're gonna need to eliminate slavery. They were said it's not economically feasible. We can't do it Well, that didn't really matter because it was not it was not morally Okay, and humanity came to the point where they realized that it was not morally. Okay, so perhaps it's a situation where we need governments to get to the point of

Matt (22:59)
It was not morally okay. And humanity came to the point where they realized that it was not morally okay. So perhaps it's a situation where we need governments to get to the point of,

Soham Mehta (22:59)
It was not morally okay. And humanity came to the point where they realized that it was not morally okay. So perhaps it's a situation where we need governments to get to the point of,

George Pu (23:09)
Where we, humanity is going to get to the point of that, you know, large government is immoral or large taxation of the people is immoral and that's the way that we move forward in figuring out how to solve these problems. ⁓

Soham Mehta (23:09)
where we need humanity to get to the point of that large government is immoral or large taxation of the people is immoral and that's the way that we move forward in figuring out how to solve these problems.

Matt (23:09)
or we need humanity to get to the point of that, you know, large government is immoral or large taxation of the people is immoral. And that's the way that we move forward in figuring out how to solve these problems. ⁓

George Pu (23:24)
Yeah, I think that makes sense. Like I personally think governments like they tend to become bigger. I don't know where in the world you can see like this like self, you know, governing small governments, right? And some people might be like, George Europe, but they're, they're part of the union. know, most of the small countries you can say like Norway and Sweden and all that they're part of the union and the union is a huge government. they have huge taxation too, right? Like all the, you know, you look at Norway, Sweden, Denmark, they all have like

Soham Mehta (23:24)
I personally think governments tend to become bigger. I don't know where in the world you can see this self-governing small government. Some people might be like, oh, Georgia Europe. They're part of the union. Most of the small countries, can say Norway and Sweden and all that, they're part of the union. Well, they have huge taxation too. Like all the, know, Norway,

Matt (23:32)
see like this like self you know governing small governments right and some people I've been out towards Europe but they're they're part of the Union you know most of the small countries you can say like Norway and Sweden and all that they're part of the Union well they have huge taxation too right like all the you know you look at Norway Sweden ⁓

Soham Mehta (23:53)
Denmark, they all have

Matt (23:53)
Denmark, they all have

insane taxation, about 50%. Now do they have really nice societies and high quality of living? Yes. So where do you find that balance? And it feels to me like government never becomes smaller. And even when you have situations like we just had Elon Musk come in to the Trump administration and try to cut a bunch of funding. Well, how did that end up? What's the latest on that actually?

George Pu (23:54)
insane taxation, about 50 % right? Now do they have like really nice societies and then you know...

Soham Mehta (23:54)
insane taxation, about 50%, right? Now, do they have really nice societies and high quality of living? Yes. So, where do you find that balance? And it feels to me like government never becomes smaller. And even when you have situations like we just had Elon Musk come in to the Trump administration and try to cut a bunch of funding. Well, how did that end up? What's the latest on that, actually?

George Pu (24:00)
High quality of living. Yes. ⁓ so, so like, where do you, where do you find that balance? and it feels to me like government never becomes smaller. And even when you have situations like we just had Elon Musk come in to the Trump administration and try to cut a bunch of funding. Well, how did that end up? What's the latest on that actually?

⁓ yeah, I think, well, I think they are still fighting. I think, Elon is apparently retreating on the fighting a little bit, but now we don't know what's going on.

Soham Mehta (24:23)
Well, I think they are still fighting. think Yilan is apparently retreating on the fighting a little bit.

Matt (24:24)
still fighting I think Yilang is...

Soham Mehta (24:30)
I

George Pu (24:30)
But I guess my takeaway of that, and so I'm, want to do your thoughts on this is like, everybody is talking about the deficit, at least from like many years ago. And last year, the election, was all about deficits. And this year is all about Doge is all about government efficiency. And then we can, we come to this like one beautiful bill that's going to add like trillions and trillions of dollars over 10 years to the deficit. And yeah, I'm just like, I'm quite puzzled. I guess does that mean like the government never actually

Soham Mehta (24:30)
guess when I take away your thoughts on this is like everybody is talking about the deficit at least from like many years ago and last year the election was all about deficits and this year it's all about the bill which is all about government efficiency and then we come to this one beautiful bill that's going to add like trillions of trillions of dollars over 10 years to the deficit and yeah I'm just like I'm quite puzzled so I guess does that mean like the government never

Matt (24:31)
I guess I might take away of that, I want to hear your thoughts on this. Everybody is talking about the deficit, at least from many years ago. And last year, the election, was all about deficits. And this year, it's all about DOJ, it's all about government efficiency. And then we come to this one beautiful bill that's going to add trillions and trillions of dollars over 10 years to the deficit. yeah, I'm quite puzzled, I guess, does that mean the government never...

Soham Mehta (25:00)
actually gets the time

Matt (25:00)
gets it down it's

George Pu (25:00)
gets a dime?

just about the electorates? Yeah, and I think that's the problem we've said a couple of times when you have short-term vision and I think the public markets are similar, right? The idea that if every quarter you have to just say an update, your incentives become very different from the overall strength of your company long-term. So I always think there's always a flaw in those two incentives not being aligned. I think the bigger

Soham Mehta (25:00)
to just above the other kids.

Matt (25:00)
just about the electrics. Yeah and I think that's the problem we've said like a couple of times when you have short-term like vision and I think the public markets are similar right the idea that if every quarter you have to just say an update your incentives become very different from like overall strength of your company long term so I always think there's always like a flaw in those two incentives not being aligned. think the big

George Pu (25:24)
almost solution, it sounds very simple in aspect, is at a point, government should be able to

Matt (25:24)
solution. It sounds very simple and aspect is at a point government should be able

to prove why a law should also stay in place. think like this idea, I think has been catching momentum, just an expiration date for like rules and regulations. It makes sense. Like what you were saying, Matt, there's so much red tape bureaucracy, you know, just to build a house for some of these rules. were from like the 1890s that don't even matter anymore. And it makes no sense because you're so you're artificially inflating jobs. So your unemployment looks better, but

Soham Mehta (25:30)
a law should also stay in place, think. Like this idea, I think has been catching momentum, just an expiration date for like rules and regulations. It makes sense, like what you were saying, Matt, there's so much red tape bureaucracy, even just to build a house. For some of these rules, they were from like the 1890s, that don't even matter anymore.

George Pu (25:30)
stay in place I think like this idea I think it's been catching momentum just an expiration date for like rules and regulations it makes sense like what you were saying Matt there's so much red tape bureaucracy even just to build a house for some of these rules they were from like the 1890s that don't even matter anymore and it makes no sense because you're so you're artificially inflating jobs so your unemployment looks better but

Soham Mehta (25:48)
It makes no sense because you're artificially inflating jobs so your unemployment looks better, but

Matt (25:54)
The way you're doing is by everybody collectively having higher taxation as you're saying that where

Soham Mehta (25:54)
the way you're doing it is by everybody collectively having higher taxation as you're saying Matt, where...

George Pu (25:54)
the way you're doing is by everybody collectively having higher taxation as you're saying Matt where

Matt (26:00)
The idea of saying yeah Let's lower taxes seems unheard of the fact that income tax isn't like something that was permanently a thing people used to pay right these things just Come and then you kind of get used to it becomes docile like I remember this is one experiment I was reading my links kind of famous It's they put seven monkeys inside of like a cage and they put a banana all over the top

George Pu (26:01)
The idea of saying, oh yeah, let's lower taxes seems unheard of. The fact that income tax isn't like something that was permanently a thing people used to pay, right? These things just come and then you kind of get used to it, it becomes docile. Like, I remember there was this one experiment I was doing, I think it's kind of famous, it's, they put seven monkeys inside of a cage and they put a banana all over the top,

Soham Mehta (26:01)
The idea of saying, oh yeah, let's lower taxes seems unheard of. The fact that income tax isn't like something that was permanently a thing people used to pay, right? These things just come and then you kind of get used to it, it becomes docile. Like I remember this is one experiment I was doing, I think it's kind of famous. They put seven monkeys inside of like a cage and they put like a banana all over the top,

George Pu (26:22)
right? And then there's a ladder and like monkeys would go up, try to grab a banana.

Soham Mehta (26:22)
right? And then there was a ladder and like monkeys would go up, try to grab the banana. Every time that a monkey did grab the banana, there was a punishment, like a bunch of holes.

Matt (26:22)
And then there's a ladder and like monkeys would go up, try to grab a banana. Every time that a monkey did grab a banana, there was a punishment. Like a bunch of hoses

George Pu (26:29)
There was a punishment like a bunch of hoses

Soham Mehta (26:31)
would spray these monkeys. But what they ended up doing is, then they replaced two monkeys that were from the original seven with like two brand new monkeys. Obviously they tried to climb and get the banana. The other five monkeys punished those two monkeys saying without even any of the actual humans coming in to punish them. And you keep replacing the original monkeys with new monkeys. Monkeys that don't even know

Matt (26:31)
would

George Pu (26:31)
would spray these monkeys But what they ended up doing is then they replaced two monkeys that were from the original seven with like two brand new monkeys Obviously, they tried to climb and get the banana the other five monkeys punished those two monkeys saying without even any of the actual humans coming into punishment and you keep replacing the original monkeys with new monkeys monkeys that don't

Matt (26:31)
spray these monkeys. But what then they ended up doing is then they replaced two monkeys that were from the original seven with like two brand new monkeys. Obviously they tried to climb and get the banana. The other five monkeys punished those two monkeys saying without even any of the actual humans coming in to punish them. And you keep replacing the original monkeys with new monkeys, monkeys that don't even know

Soham Mehta (26:52)
why grabbing the banana is wrong. Monkeys that have never been punished for it. But they artificially just

Matt (26:55)
that have never been punished for it, but they artificially just

George Pu (26:55)
that have never been punished for it but they artificially just

beat each other up the moment somebody tries to grab that banana which is just out of their own self-interest would be good at that point right so I think government have the illness has to be on the government to prove why this regulatory thing should be there like regulatory capture should not be permanent that what you're saying in George like the end goal that is what leads to a deficit you have this ⁓ this committee that needs X amount of money

Matt (26:59)
beat each other up the moment somebody tries to grab that banana, which is just out of their own self-interest would be good at that point, right? So at a point, think government has the onus has to be on the government to prove why this regulatory thing should be there. Like regulatory capture should not be permanent. I think that what you're saying and George, like the end goal of that is what leads to a deficit. You have this, ⁓ this committee that needs X amount of money.

Soham Mehta (26:59)
beat each other up the moment somebody tries to grab that banana, which is just out of their own self-interest would be good at that point, right? So at a point, think government has the onus has to be on the government to prove why this regulatory thing should be there. Like regulatory capture should not be permanent.

I think that what you're saying then George like the end goal of that is what leads to a deficit. You have this ⁓ this committee that needs X amount of money.

Matt (27:23)
And when you start like I sat on committee meetings, what is happening is you end up just at the end of the year, if you haven't used the budget, you find a way to use the budget because you know then or else next year, you're not going to get that budget. And so whatever money you get one year will always be the same amount, if not more constantly going forward.

Soham Mehta (27:23)
And when you start like I sat on committee meetings, what ends up happening is you end up just at the end of the year, if you haven't used the budget, you find a way to use the budget because you know then or else next year, you're not going to get that budget. And so whatever money you get one year will always be the same amount, if not more constantly going forward.

George Pu (27:23)
And when you start like, I sat around committee meetings, what ends up happening is you end up just at the end of the year, if you haven't used the budget, you find a way to use the budget because you know then or else next year you're not going to get that budget. And so whatever money you get one year will always be the same amount, if not more constantly going forward.

Matt (27:42)
And if you don't have a reason to actually prove why it's important, people always just keep giving it to you and it just is going to grow.

George Pu (27:42)
And if you don't have a reason to actually prove why it's important,

Soham Mehta (27:42)
And if you don't have a reason to actually prove why it's important, people will just keep giving it to you and it's gonna grow.

George Pu (27:46)
People will just keep giving it to you and it's just gonna grow.

Matt (27:48)
it's never actually going to subside.

Soham Mehta (27:48)
It's never actually gonna subside.

George Pu (27:48)
It's never actually gonna subside.

Matt (27:51)
Yeah, I think the problem also is like, think we're all going into a two party system. Here in Canada, we just had the election where it's basically becoming a two party system now. And in the US obviously, it's two party system. Around the world, I think we're seeing more.

Soham Mehta (27:54)
Yeah.

Matt (28:07)
system is that we're seeing there's like consensus among two parties right basically you can like as a voter you can only pay one or two and if two are the same honest if the two stands the same on a certain issue such as a deficit then nothing is ever going to be done about about this issue which we can see it from the US Trump is not going to do anything about deficits whoever comes next and I'm gonna do anything about first deficits so it just ever ever grows on right and in Canada we probably have the same thing with immigration nobody's gonna do anything

Soham Mehta (28:08)
soon there's like

Basically, as a whole, can only take one two. And if two are the same, if the two stand the same on a certain issue, such as the deficit, then nothing is ever going to be done about this issue, which we can see it from the US. Trump is not going to make it about deficits. Whoever comes next is not going to make it about deficits. So it's just ever going to be a result of it. And in Canada, we probably have the same thing with immigration. Nobody's going to do anything with

George Pu (28:16)
are the same on a, if the two stands the same on a certain issue such as a deficit, then nothing is ever going to be done about this issue, which we can see it from the US. Trump is not going to do anything about deficits. Whoever comes next is not going to do anything about deficits. So it just ever, ever grows on, right? And in Canada, we probably have the same thing with immigration. Nobody's going to do anything about

Soham Mehta (28:37)
immigration.

George Pu (28:37)
immigration. And then it just keeps going on. And as a voter, there's nothing you can really do. Well, and the thing is too, governments are going to just find more and more ways to

Matt (28:37)
And then this keeps going on and as a voter you there's nothing you can redo Well, and the thing is too is governments are going to just find more and more ways to

Soham Mehta (28:38)
And then this keeps going on and as a voter you just don't care what you do. Well the thing is to do is governments are going to just find more ways to...

Matt (28:46)
Increase their own spending and justify it by increasing taxes in one way or another ⁓ I don't know if you guys heard about Australia and the unrealized gains tax that was just introduced on people's retirements funds if you have over over three million dollars in your retirement fund that is now taxed with unrealized gains ⁓ Unreal what is unrealized gains? Well, it means if even if you didn't sell they're still taxing you on the gain that you made from the

Soham Mehta (28:46)
increase their own spending and justify it by increasing taxes in one way or another. I don't know if you guys heard about Australia, the unrealized gains tax that was just introduced on people's retirements funds. If you have over $3 billion in your retirement fund, that is now taxed with unrealized gains. Unrealized, is unrealized gains? Well, means even if you didn't sell, they're still taxing you on the gain that you made for the

George Pu (28:46)
increase their own spending and justify it by increasing taxes in one way or another. ⁓

I don't know if you guys heard about Australia and the unrealized gains tax that was just introduced on people's retirements funds. If you have over $3 million in your retirement fund, that is now taxed with unrealized gains. ⁓ What is unrealized gains? Well, it means that even if you didn't sell, they're still taxing you on the gain that you made from the previous

Soham Mehta (29:16)
previous

Matt (29:16)
fiscal year, which to me is insanity because, okay, well, am I getting money back for an unrealized loss?

George Pu (29:16)
fiscal year, which to me is insanity because, okay, well, am I getting money back for an unrealized loss?

Soham Mehta (29:17)
Which to me is insanity because, okay, am I getting money back for an unrealized loss?

George Pu (29:23)
No, absolutely not. This is insanity. And the thing is, this is what they always do. They put it at like a reasonably high number. Like, oh, this is only for, you know, if you're in your retirement account, you have more than $3 million. And, oh, well, if we look at it, you know, 90 % of Australians don't have more than 9%, you know, more than 3 million. So we're only, you know,

Matt (29:23)
No, absolutely not. ⁓ This is insanity. And the thing is, this is what they always do. They put it at like a ⁓ reasonably high number, like, this is only for, you know, if you're in your retirement account, you have more than $3 million and, well, if we look at it, you know, 90 % of Australians don't have more than 90%, you know, more than 3 million. So we're only, you

Soham Mehta (29:23)
No, absolutely not. This is insanity. the thing is, this is what they always do. They put it at like a reasonably high number. oh, this is a life for, you know, if you're in your retirement, you have more than $3 million. say, oh, well, if look at it, know, 98 % of Australians don't have more than 90%, you know, more than 3 million. So we're only talking, you

Matt (29:45)
taxing

Soham Mehta (29:46)
tax

George Pu (29:46)
taxing the top 10%. Well, originally, when income tax came in around World War II, or sorry, actually around World War I, it was only

Soham Mehta (29:46)
to the top 10 % well originally income tax came in around World War II, sorry actually around World War I, only for the 1 % so here we are again how much inflation is going to need to occur before that I'm realizing this tax is affecting every single Australian in the country.

Matt (29:46)
the top 10%. Well, originally when income tax came in around World War II, or sorry, actually around World War I, it was only for the 1%. So here we are again, how much inflation is going to need to occur before that unrealized gains tax is affecting every single Australian in the country.

George Pu (29:53)
only for the 1%. So here we are again, how much inflation is going to need to occur before that unrealized gains tax is affecting every single Australian in the country? I think that's a really good point. I think,

think Matt, like we, so like we caught, keep talking about like the problem, right? And I think our listeners might be like, okay, like Matt, George, so I'm like, what are your thoughts about how can I as a person, right? Like how can I as a person mitigate those problems? ⁓ And I think, and I think I personally think it's

Soham Mehta (30:11)
And I think, or this is just my, like, okay, Matt and George, so I'm like, what are your thoughts about how can I as a person, right, like, how can I as a person mitigate those problems? And I think, personally think it's

Matt (30:20)
And I think I personally think it's

a very important thing is that, if you know the system is not working and you're stuck in a two-party system where neither...

George Pu (30:23)
very important thing is that, okay, if you know the system is not working and you're stuck in a two party system where neither party is gonna do anything about it, so let's start with something like what do you say to the people or what are the things maybe you're looking out yourself when we're in this situation where the economy

Soham Mehta (30:23)
a very important thing is that, okay, if give me justice without working, and you're stuck in a two-party system where neither party's gonna do anything about it, so let's start talking about what do you say to the people, or what are the things maybe you are looking at yourself when we're in this situation where the con...

Matt (30:31)
So it's probably something like, what do you say to the people or what are the things maybe you're looking at out yourself when we're in a situation where the economy

George Pu (30:39)
is not doing well, you're a little bit pessimistic about the future in terms of the economy, ⁓ what do you do yourself? Yeah, and think it comes down to one thing we were saying before and to a couple times is like,

Matt (30:39)
is not doing well, you're a little bit pessimistic about the future in terms of the economy. What do you do yourself? Yeah, and I think it comes down to one thing we were saying beforehand too a couple of times is, for Australia specifically, it always leads to the idea of capital flight. People that can afford it will actually end up leaving the country. then who's going to end up carrying the burden?

Soham Mehta (30:39)
while you're a little bit pessimistic about the future in terms of the economy, what do you do for yourself?

George Pu (30:52)
show specific and just always leads to idea of capital flight.

Who's gonna end up carrying the burden of

being a middle class? It always ends up like that. And it seems easy to be able to say the idea that you should just be able to vote with your passport. Go to another country that wants to take you. For example, El Salvador.

Matt (31:01)
It always ends up like that. And like, it seems easy, like, I feel like to be able to say the idea that, you should just be able to like vote with your passport, you know, like go to another country that wants to take you. I feel like, for example, like El Salvador

Soham Mehta (31:06)
to be able to say the idea that, you should just be able to vote with your passport, know, like go to another country that wants to take you. And I feel like, for example, like El Salvador

has become very open for like immigration. A lot of countries that seem like they're the up-and-comers in the 21st century going forward. And it seems easy to say for like young people. And I think I still would give that advice to young people that have no actual ties to a country if...

Matt (31:14)
has become very open for like immigration. A lot of countries that seem like they're the up and newcomers in the 21st century going forward. And it seems easy to say for young people. And I think I still would give that advice to young people that have no

George Pu (31:17)
that seem like they're the up and newcomers in the 21st century going forward. And it seems easy to say for young people, and I think I still would give that advice to young people that have...

Matt (31:29)
to a country if

the two-party system seems like it's not working at all for you. I've actually become a bit more optimistic in Canada specifically. I actually think more countries are representing Canada very well. But I agree, think America is becoming intense to like live there as an American. And if you don't have a tie to it, yeah, the idea of leaving might be there. But if you feel patriotic too, like there really isn't much to do except let your voice be heard. I mean, you've seen social media does have power, right? Like the reason why Trump did win was social media power.

Soham Mehta (31:30)
The two party system seems like it's not working at all for you. I've actually become a bit more optimistic in Canada specifically. actually think Mark Cornish are representing Canada very well, but I agree. think America is becoming intense to like live there as an American. And if you don't have a tie to it, yeah, the idea of leaving might be there, but if you feel patriotic to like, there really isn't much to do except let your voice be heard. mean, we've seen social media does have power, right? Like the reason why Trump did win was social media podcasting

George Pu (31:30)
The TubeBuddy system seems like it's not working at all for you. I've actually become a bit more optimistic in Canada specifically. I actually think Mark Minnesford represented Canada.

America's becoming intense to like live there as an American and if you don't have a tie to it, the idea of leaving might be there but if you feel patriotic too like there really isn't much to do except let your voice be heard. mean we've seen social media does that.

The why Trump did win was social media podcasting.

Matt (31:59)
things along those lines. Yeah, know, that's a traditional media is dead. Yeah, I think I will think like leaving shouldn't be the only way, know, if you're not optimistic about the future.

George Pu (31:59)
Things along those lines. Yeah, know Musk. think I think I will I will think like leaving shouldn't be the only way you know if you're not optimistic about the future of the country that you're in. I always think there should be a way that you can set up something that's like very sovereign ⁓ while minimizing your personal downside risks. know hypothetical scenario you know the

Soham Mehta (31:59)
things along those

I think if you're not optimistic about the future of the country that you're in, always think you be willing to step up something that's very soft-roam while minimizing your personal downside risks. In a hypothetical scenario, know, the...

Matt (32:15)
think there should be a way that you can set up something that's like very sovereign while minimizing your personal downside risks in a hypothetical scenario you know the

George Pu (32:25)
the new George might only have 10 % in Canadian dollars. Maybe the new George will have

Soham Mehta (32:25)
the new George might only have 10 % in Canadian dollars. Maybe the new George will

Matt (32:25)
the new George might only have 10 % in Canadian dollars maybe the new George will have

Soham Mehta (32:32)
have lot of money in Bitcoin or in US dollars or whatever. Or whatever makes sense. Well, here's the problem though is that, so say you try to, like that's what people are trying to do, right? Is they try to minimize their exposure, right? So you might only have 10 % in Canadian dollar and just like that, but it's even 9 % of it. Well,

George Pu (32:32)
a lot of money in Bitcoin or the US dollars or whatever currency that makes sense. Well, here's the problem though is that, so say you try to, like that's what people are already trying to do, right? Is they try to minimize their exposure, right? So you might only have 10 % in Canadian dollar and just hypothetically, let's say you have 90 % in Bitcoin. Well, you've managed to escape the inflation that

Matt (32:34)
dollars more.

Well, here's the problem though is that so say you try to like that's what people already try to do right as they try to minimize their exposure, right? So you might only have 10 % in Canadian dollar and just hypothetically, let's say you have 90 % in Bitcoin Well, you know you've managed to escape the inflation that is occurring

Soham Mehta (32:52)
You you've managed to escape the inflation that has occurred

George Pu (32:55)
with Canadian dollars, but they still come after you for a portion of that with capital gains. And the situation is that the more the Canadian government screws up and the value of the Canadian dollar goes down, the more they tax you.

Matt (32:55)
with Canadian dollars but they still come after you for a portion of that with capital gains and The situation is that the more the Canadian government screws up

Soham Mehta (32:55)
with Canadian dollars, but they still come after you for a portion of that with capital gains. And the situation is that the more the Canadian government screws up and the value of the Canadian dollar goes down, the more they attack you.

Matt (33:06)
and the value of the Canadian dollar goes down, the more they tax you.

Right? So, it's a perverse incentive where the more they inflate the currency, the more they take from the people. Which is a bizarre incentive to put in place in any economy, right? The Canadian dollar used to be parity, CAD USD 1 to 1. Now it's like, what, 67 cents on the dollar?

Soham Mehta (33:10)
Right so for first incentive, the more they can put in currency, the more they take from people. Which is a bizarre incentive to put in place in any economy. The Canadian dollar is pretty good. Had the US move 1 to 1. Now it's like what, 67 cents on the dollar? So

George Pu (33:10)
Right? So it's a perverse incentive where the more they inflate the currency, the more they take from the people, which is a bizarre incentive to put in place in any economy. Right? The Canadian dollar used to be parity, CAD, USD, one to one. Now it's like, what, 67

cents on the dollar. So

like we're being penalized with capital gains tax for avoiding the massive losses in comparison to the U.S. dollar that the Canadian government caused. And then like you try to look at like other structures, right? So you you look at setting up an offshore entity. Now that needs to be reported to the IRS or CRA wherever you live. As an American, you're screwed because no matter where you go in the world,

Soham Mehta (33:27)
we're being penalized with capital gains for massive losses in comparison to the US dollar that the Canadian government caused.

Matt (33:27)
that we're being penalized with capital gains tax for avoiding the massive losses in comparison to the U.S. that the Canadian government caused.

And then like you try to look at like other structures, right? So, you know, you look at setting up an offshore entity Now that needs to be reported to the IRS or CRA wherever you live as an American you're screwed because no matter where you go in the world

Soham Mehta (33:38)
And then you try to look at other structures, right? So, you you look at setting up an offshore entity. Now, that needs to be reported to the IRS, the CRA, where you live. As an American, sure, because no matter where you go in the world,

George Pu (33:51)
You have citizen-based taxation. As a Canadian, you could pay the exit tax and get out. But as long as you're a Canadian tax resident, ⁓ the CRA will still go after you for having an offshore entity or something else of that nature. so it's really hard.

Matt (33:51)
You have citizen-based taxation as a Canadian. You can pay the exit tax and get out But as long as you're a Canadian tax resident

Soham Mehta (33:51)
you're a citizen-based taxation. As a Canadian, can pay the exit tax and get out. But as long as you're a Canadian tax resident, the CRA will still go after you for having an offshore entity or something else of that nature. And so it's really hard.

Matt (33:59)
the CRA will still go after you for having a, you know, offshore entity or something else of that nature. And so it's really hard. And

the other thing I find really strange too, is that the people that do try to escape, you know, the, things that are going on, they do get penalized, right? At the end of the day, there's lots of instances where people, had their tax free savings account, right? ⁓ which in Canada means it's just a special account where you don't get taxed for the capital gains and you have a maximum amount you can put into it. People found some,

George Pu (34:07)
The other thing I find really strange too is that the people that do try to escape the things that are going on, they do get penalized. At the end of the day, there's lots of instances where people, had their tax-free savings account. ⁓

Soham Mehta (34:08)
really strange too is that the people that do try to escape you know the things that are going on they do get penalized right at the end of the day there's lots of instances where people they had their tax-free savings account right which you can that it's just a special account where you don't get taxed with capital gains and you have a maximum amount you can put into it people found some

George Pu (34:21)
which in Canada means it's just a special account where you don't get taxed for the capital gains and you have a maximum amount you can put into it. People found

Matt (34:29)
some interesting like financial loopholes that were technically legal under their own you know legislation that they put in but the CRA deemed

George Pu (34:29)
some interesting financial loopholes that were technically legal under their own ⁓ legislation that they put in.

Soham Mehta (34:29)
some interesting financial repulse that were technically legal under their own you know legislation that they put in but the CRA

George Pu (34:37)
But the CRA

deemed it, they have a special clause in there that says, you know, it's basically like anything that's ridiculous or anything that we deem to be unacceptable. And they basically took them to court for that and need to pay a bunch of penalties. So even at the end of the day, if you do figure out the perfect way around the system, they will still come after you based on their own bias. ⁓ So, you know, at that point, it just becomes really hard. Yeah. What's your antidote, ⁓ Matt? Like what's your solution?

Soham Mehta (34:38)
they have a special clause in there that says, you know, it's basically like anything that's ridiculous or anything that you deem to be unacceptable and

Matt (34:38)
it they have a special clause in there that says you know it's basically like anything that's ridiculous or anything that we deemed to be unacceptable

And they basically took them to court for that and made them pay a bunch of penalties. So even at the end of the day, if you do figure out the perfect way around the system, they will still come after you ⁓ based on their own bias. ⁓ So at that point, it just becomes really hard.

Soham Mehta (34:47)
they basically throw them to the court for that and need to pay a bunch of penalties. So even at the end of the day if you do figure out the perfect way around the system, they will still come after you based on their own bias. So, you know, at that point it just becomes really hard.

George Pu (35:07)
perhaps I don't know I don't know that one exists perfectly I mean it's like I think if you live within Canada as a Canadian tax resident there's like certain things you can do same thing with the United States where we're at the end of the day like you just try to optimize by putting a certain amount of it in Bitcoin but you just have to realize that you are going to pay a portion of that in capital gains

Soham Mehta (35:08)
I don't know what the point is. I think if look at Canada as a Canadian tax resident, there's certain things you can do. Same thing with the United States.

Matt (35:08)
I don't know that one exists perfectly. mean, it's like, I think if you live within Canada as a Canadian tax resident, there's like certain things you can do. Same thing with the United States, where at the end of the day, like you just try to optimize by putting a certain amount of it in Bitcoin, but you just have to realize that you are going to pay a portion of that in capital gains.

Soham Mehta (35:23)
Where at the end of the day, you start to optimize by putting a certain amount of it in Bitcoin, but you just never realize that you are going to pay a portion of that in your actual gains.

Matt (35:31)
They're not going to be able to take all of it, right? They're going to be able to take...

George Pu (35:31)
They're not going be able to take all of it, right? They're going to be able to take, you know, 50 % of that is going to go towards capital gains and then they might end up taking, you know, 25 % of your stack at the end of the day. That's pretty much as good as you can do, like within the country itself. The only other option is to leave, right? Is to leave and do the exit tax and basically choose a jurisdiction where you're

Soham Mehta (35:31)
They're not going be able to take all of it, they're not going be able to take 50 % of the fact that these are going go towards capital gains, and they might have to take 25 % of your stock at the end of the day. That's pretty much as good as you can do, like within the country itself. The only other option is to leave, right? Is to leave and do the exit tax and basically choose a jurisdiction where

Matt (35:34)
you know, 50 % of that is going to go towards capital gains and then they might end up taking, you know, 25 % of your stack in the end of the day. That's pretty much as good as you can do, like within the country itself. The only other option is to leave, right? Is to leave and do the exit tax and basically choose a jurisdiction where you're

Soham Mehta (35:53)
you're

paying much less in terms of capital gains tax and income tax, right? And obviously, I know the fairways are good option for that. There's other jurisdictions as well. I've heard good things about Dubai. I know that you are just in Dubai. No doubt we, George, are curious to hear if you've learned, what you've learned from that experience on like how can people optimize? Yeah, I think the thing I saw with Abu Dhabi and Qatar where I first went

Matt (35:54)
paying much less in terms of capital gains tax and income tax, right? And obviously I know that Paraguay is a good option for that. There's other jurisdiction as well.

George Pu (35:54)
paying much less in terms of capital gains tax.

And income tax right and obviously, I'm you know, I know the pair of ways a good option for that There's other jurisdiction as well. I've heard good things about Dubai. I know that you were just in Dubai and Abu Dhabi George I'm curious to hear if you've learned what you've learned from that experience on like how could people optimize? Yeah, I think I think the thing I saw with Abu Dhabi and Qatar where I first went

Matt (36:04)
good things about Dubai. I know that you were just in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, George. I'm curious to hear if you've learned what you've learned from that experience ⁓ on like how, can people optimize? Yeah. I think, I think the thing I saw

George Pu (36:22)
was that they're really long-term thinkers and builders which I think I think coming

Matt (36:22)
that they're really long-term thinkers and builders, which I think coming back

Soham Mehta (36:22)
that they're really long-term thinkers and builders, which I think coming

George Pu (36:26)
back to like the US deficit problem. It's like.

Soham Mehta (36:27)
back to the US deficit problem is like...

Matt (36:27)
to the US deficit problem, it's like, okay, yes, it's a dictatorship. I've said that many times. Okay, yes, family rules is a monarchy, right? One family rules the whole country, or emirates, and they put their people in different parts of the government. So if you're not okay with that, I guess you can find somewhere else. But I really like how they're able to think really long-term.

George Pu (36:30)
Okay, yes, it's a dictatorship. I've said that many times. Okay, yes, family rules is a monarchy, right? ⁓ One family rules the whole country or Emirates and they put their people in different parts of the government. So if you're not okay with that, guess you can find somewhere else. But I really like how they're able to think really long term,

Soham Mehta (36:30)
Okay, yes, it's a dictatorship. said it many times. yes, family rules is a monarchy, right? What family rules the whole country or anywhere it's sent, put their people in different parts of the government. So if you're an out-kicker, I guess you can find somewhere else. But I really like how they're able to think, read long-term.

George Pu (36:48)
starting with people who are like really young age, they're citizens who are young, who are learning from school. They're taught English, like to speak fluent, perfect English. And everybody I met there, whether they're young, whether they're old, they

Matt (36:48)
starting with people who are like really young age, they're citizens, who are young, who are learning from school, they're taught English, like to speak fluent, perfect English. And everybody I met there, whether they're young, whether they're old, they speak

Soham Mehta (36:48)
Starting with people who are like really young age, they're citizens, or young, or learning from school. They're taught English, or to speak fluent, perfect English. And everybody I met there, whether they're young or they're oldest,

perfect fluid in English, least like the Qataris that

George Pu (37:00)
perfect fluent English at least like the Qataris that I

Matt (37:00)
perfect, fluent English, at least like the Qataris that I

Soham Mehta (37:02)
I have met in Doha. So, and they're really thinking in terms of decades, they're like, okay, we know we're buying, we're producing gasoline, we know we're mostly based on gas, and we're telling everyone that we know, we're telling the world that we're trying to get the hell out of gas, and getting something else, and that would be a solid opportunity with AI, and they're putting their money where their mouth is, right? So I think if I'm a Qataris citizen, or I'm an...

George Pu (37:03)
have met at the you know in Doha so and they're really thinking in terms of decades they're like okay we know we're buying we're like producing gasoline we know we're mostly based on gas and we're telling we're telling everyone that we know we're trying the world that we're trying to get the hell out of gas and getting something else and now they saw the perfect opportunity with AI and they're putting their money where their mouth is right and so I think if I'm a Qataris citizen or I'm an Abu Dhabi

Matt (37:05)
So, and they're really thinking in terms of decades, they're like, okay, we know we're buying, we're like producing gasoline. We know we're mostly based on gas and we're telling everyone that we know, we're telling the world that we're trying to get the hell out of gas and getting something else. And now we saw the perfect opportunity with AI and the...

So I think if I'm a guitarist isn't why I'm an

Abu Dhabi.

George Pu (37:30)
and

Soham Mehta (37:30)
And

George Pu (37:31)
Marathi,

Soham Mehta (37:31)
I will feel pretty hopeful about the future because...

George Pu (37:31)
I will feel pretty hopeful about the future because for them it's also about preserving the culture which is very important in the region and also the second is making sure this doesn't do well which I think it's kind of rare in terms of that kind of long-term thinking. Well I feel like we don't have that long-term thinking in the West because of democracy because it's every four years. It's just focused on what is the next four years going to look like but it's fascinating to hear that they're thinking about the next 50 years, 100 years,

Matt (37:33)
because for them it's also about preserving the culture which is very important in the region and also second, making sure the citizens do well which I think is kind of rare in terms of that kind of...

Soham Mehta (37:34)
Because for them it's also about preserving the culture of the more important region. And also second is making sure it's just a few levels. Which I think is kind of rare in terms of that kind of long-term thinking, Well, I feel like we don't have that long-term thinking in the West because of democracy, because it's every four years. It's just focused on what is the next four years going to look like. But it's fascinating to hear that they're thinking about, I feel like they're about the next 50 years, 100 years,

Matt (37:46)
Well, I feel like we don't have that long-term thinking in the West because of democracy, because it's every four years, right? It's just focused on what is the next four years going to look like? But it's fascinating to hear that they're thinking about, like they're probably thinking about the next 50 years, 100 years, 150

George Pu (38:00)

Soham Mehta (38:00)
150 years, what is that region going to look like?

Matt (38:00)
years.

George Pu (38:00)
years, what is that region going to look like? What is their country going to look like? And how are we going to set up our young people for the long term?

Matt (38:01)
What is that region going to look like? What is their country going to look like? And how are we going to set up our young people for the long-term, which is really cool. Yeah, they're thinking about what's really good for them, right?

Soham Mehta (38:04)
the country going to look like and how are we going to set up our young people for the long term, which is really cool. Yeah, thinking about what's really good for them,

George Pu (38:08)
which is really cool.

Soham Mehta (38:11)
So like for Qatar, example, specifically, they set up this Qatar Airways, which is now like the best airline in the world, right? And part of the reason why they can do it is because obviously they produce the gasoline, the oil, the jet engine, the hostel, the services and everything else, like the war class, right? So they build something that's like good for the red, and it goes to FIFA, then out to the R7.

Matt (38:11)
⁓ for Qatar for specific this up is Qatar Airways which which is now like the best airline in the world right and part of reason why they can do it because obviously they produce the the gasoline the oil the jet engines but still the services and everything else like warclots right so they build something that's like good for the brand they host the FIFA and they have Al Jazeera which is like

you know Arabic and English like media

Soham Mehta (38:34)
in which we

tell their stories. So everything that they're doing, can see that they're planning it for the next decades to come. obviously there are many things in those countries that we might not agree with. And obviously that's something, know, too, that's not another topic for a Western person to think about. But I think most, like 99 % of my experience there has been awesome. Well, I think what we can agree with is their viewpoint towards time reference. And it's clear that the time reference is no longer.

Matt (38:35)
tell their stories. So everything that they're doing, can see that they're planning it for the next decades to come. And obviously there are many things in those countries that we might not agree with. ⁓ And obviously that's something, you know, that's not a...

George Pu (38:38)
planning it for the next decades to come. obviously there are many things in those countries that we might not agree with. ⁓ And obviously that's something, know, that's not another topic for a Western person to think about. But I think most, like 99.9 % of my experience there has been awesome. Well, I think what we can agree with is their viewpoint towards time preference. And it's clear that their time preference is in the long term.

Matt (38:51)
Well, think what we can agree with is their viewpoint towards time preference and there it's clear that their time preferences in the long term

and I don't think anyone can argue with that the longer the time preference you have The the better the outcome for society if you if you have a you know if you have a group of people that are able to think not only for themselves, but think of

George Pu (39:03)
And I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Soham Mehta (39:04)
The longer this mind factor in C-Hab...

George Pu (39:05)
the longer the time preference you have, ⁓

Soham Mehta (39:09)
the better the outcome for society. If you have a group of people that are able to think not only for themselves, but think of

George Pu (39:10)
the better the outcome for society. If you have a group of people that are able to think not only for themselves, but think of

Matt (39:18)
like their children and their grandchildren being able to have great lives, that's much better than just thinking of the next four years. That's always going to result in a better outcome for the society. And I feel like they've been able to optimize for that. Now, is there a great risk because it's all centralized in the family, right? You know, what if you get a bad apple in power? You know, that's possible.

George Pu (39:18)
their children and their grandchildren being able to have great lives, that's much better than just thinking of the next four years. That's always going to result in a better outcome for the society. And I feel like they've been able to optimize for that. Now, is there a great risk because it's all centralized in the family?

Soham Mehta (39:18)
like their children and their grandchildren being able to have great lives, that's much better than just thinking of the next four years. That's all a result of a better outcome for the society. I feel like they've been able to optimize for that. Now, is there a great risk because it's all centralized in the family, right? know, what if you get that out of your power? You know, that's possible.

George Pu (39:36)
Right? You know, why did you get a bad apple in power? You know, that's possible.

Um, so that's, that's the risk. That's the risk you have to take. Yeah. I do think they have some sort of like internal elections or something to figure out. Like they make sure that whoever is fit to be elected. I, and I really think I was really impressed by how ego is not a thing there in the culture, how like, it's not just like whoever has the most influences, we owe the most like things that become the leader of the country, you know, like, um, yes,

Soham Mehta (39:41)
So that's the risk. That's the risk I'm gonna take. I do think they have some sort of internal elections or something to figure out. They make sure that whoever is fit to be elected. And I really think, I was really impressed by how ego is another thing there in the culture. How it's not just like whoever has the most influence, we are the most like things that become the leader of the country. Like

Matt (39:41)
So that's, that's the risk. That's the risk you have to take. Yeah. I do think they have some sort of.

They make sure that whoever is fit to be elected. And I was really impressed by how ego is another thing there in a country. How it's not just like whoever has the most influences wield the most things that become the leader of the country. yeah,

George Pu (40:06)
Saudi had a coup. I wasn't there. I'm not sure

Soham Mehta (40:06)
yes, Saudi had food, I wasn't there, I'm not sure.

Matt (40:06)
Saudi had a coup.

George Pu (40:08)
about Saudi, but at least for Qatar and Abu Dhabi, was saying something that's like really forward thinking people really for thinking. I think, and I think that's rare. Yeah. So I wonder what you think about like our current government. know you said Mark Carney is doing a great job, which, which, you know, like, which I think like, yes, like looking forward, right? How do you see yourself navigating like these global different countries and you know, different powers?

Matt (40:08)
But at least for Qatar and Abu Dhabi, would say something that's really forward thinking people. Really forward thinking people. think that's rare. Yeah, so I wonder what you think about our current government. I know you said Mark Carney is doing a great job. I think, yes, looking forward, how do you see yourself navigating?

Soham Mehta (40:08)
about Saudi, at least for Qatar and Abu Dhabi, I to say something that's really forward thinking people, really forward thinking people. And I think that's where, yeah, so I wonder what you think about that, like you said, parties doing a good job, which I think, yes, looking forward, how do you see yourself navigating these different countries and different powers?

Matt (40:30)
different countries and different powers.

Soham Mehta (40:33)
You know, one thing I've realized is I think as a citizen, there should be some onus on you as well. One is, and what I mean by that is, you know, we keep talking about like, yes, these dictatorships have like long-term vision, but what that allows them to do is that allows them to fail big as well. Right? Like for example, like Saudi failed with like the line that they tried to do. the amount, like the smear campaigns that would happen if we ever tried something like that ambitious in like the U S or in

Matt (40:33)
know, one thing I've realized is I think as a citizen, there should be some onus on you as well. One is, and what I mean by that is, you know, we keep talking about like as these dictatorships have like long-term vision, but what that allows them to do is that allows them to fail big as well. For example, like Saudi failed the line that they tried to do. Like the amount, like the smear campaigns that would happen if we ever tried something like that ambitious in like the US or in

George Pu (40:35)
There should be some onus on you as well one is and what I mean by that is you know we keep talking about like yes these dictatorships have like long-term vision but what that allows them to do is that also to fail big as well like for example like Saudi feel like the line that they tried to do like the amount like the smear campaigns that would happen if we ever tried something like that ambitious and like the US or in

Soham Mehta (40:58)
Canada would be ridiculous. Right? Like the amount of media would hate it. And then it would become like a.

George Pu (40:58)
Canada would be ridiculous right like the amount of media would hate it and then it would become like a permanent hatred from like a

Matt (40:58)
would be ridiculous, right? Like the amount of media would hate it. And then it become like a permanent hatred from like a

Soham Mehta (41:03)
permanent hatred from like a

Matt (41:04)
specific

Soham Mehta (41:04)
specific facet of citizens saying okay we just don't like this government anymore.

Matt (41:05)
class of a citizen saying, okay, we just don't like this government anymore. I think there has to be some level of sympathy from like the citizens. mean, like, so like me specifically myself or anybody else that would like, if Mark Rennan were to try something big, I would be excited about that. It seems like right now is the moment to try something big. And as much as like this Trump administration has got a lot of

George Pu (41:05)
I think there has to be some level of sympathy from the citizens, so like me specifically, myself or anybody else, that if Mark wanted to try something big, I would be excited about that. It seems like right now is the moment to try something big. And as much as this Trump administration has gotten a lot of

Soham Mehta (41:09)
I think there has to be some level of sympathy from like the citizens. mean, like, so like me specifically myself or anybody else that when like if Mark Cornyn were to try something big, I would be excited about that. It seems like right now is the moment to try something big. And as much as like this Trump administration has got a lot of flak,

George Pu (41:25)
flak, the one thing I keep trying to do is give it a little bit

Soham Mehta (41:25)
the one thing I keep trying to do is give it a little bit of patience to see what they're actually trying to do with this tariff thing. I feel like right now it's so much attacks against them. And all that does is it adds noise, it distraction that only a democracy can add to it.

Matt (41:26)
give it a little bit of patience to see what they're actually trying to do with this tariff thing. I feel like right now it's so much attacks against them and all that does is it adds noise, distraction that only a democracy can add to it.

George Pu (41:27)
to see what they're actually trying to do with this tariff thing. I feel like right now it's so much attacks against them and all that does is it adds noise, adds distraction that

Matt (41:39)
When we think about these other cities like Saudi, it seems like it's such a clear thing and another example even like public markets like for example Facebook you know when they had like that Libra coin that they came out

Soham Mehta (41:39)
When we think about these other cities like Saudi, it seems like it's such a clear thing. And another example, even like public markets, like for example, Facebook, when they had like that Libra coin that they came out

George Pu (41:40)
other cities like Saudi it seems like it's such a clear thing and another example even like probably more like for example Facebook you know when they had like that

Soham Mehta (41:50)
with, wasn't as epic a failure as they could have had, right? But again, Mark Zuckerberg owns such a big portion of it. It doesn't matter. You can just move on. You just brush it off.

Matt (41:50)
It wasn't as epic a failure as they could have had, right? But again, Mark Zuckerberg owns such a big portion of it. It doesn't matter. You can just move on. You just brush it off.

George Pu (41:53)
Zuckerberg owns such a big portion of it, it doesn't matter you can just move on, just brush it off.

Soham Mehta (41:59)
And then so now bring it back to Canada. Well, when like Mark Carney went to the Trump administration, they had the meeting there. You saw like he was representing Canada. Well, it seems like he has some sort of a vision. We'll see what it is. He's publicly stated if USA doesn't want to lead the world, Canada can.

Matt (41:59)
And then so now bringing back to Canada, when like Mark Carney went to the Trump administration at the meeting there, you saw like he was representing Canada. Well, it seems like he has some sort of a vision. We'll see what it is. He's publicly stated USA doesn't want to lead the world. Canada can.

George Pu (41:59)
And then so now bringing back to Canada, well when like Mark Carney went to the Trump administration, they had a meeting there, you saw like he was representing Canada well, it seems like he has some sort of a vision, we'll see what it is, he's publicly stated the USA doesn't want to lead

Soham Mehta (42:14)
And whatever like he sees in that, I think as citizens, there has to be some level of patience as well. Like if he has a four year term, give him the four years.

George Pu (42:15)
whatever he sees in that, think as citizens, there has to be some level of patience as well. If he has a four year term, give him the four year.

Matt (42:15)
he sees in that I think as citizens there has to be some level of patience as well. Like if he has a four year term give him the four years.

I don't think it's four years but because it's a minority government. But I think I guess I wish I wish us to do well. mean it's only been it's only been a month or two maybe. I guess like I guess I'm know I think I would say I am being very patient. Yeah. I guess I'm not the most optimistic about it because the liberal.

George Pu (42:25)
I don't think he has four years, but because it's a minority government, right? But I think, guess I wish us, I wish us to do well. I mean, it's only been, it's only been a month or two maybe as it has been. I guess like I, yes, I'm, you know, being, think I will say I am being very patient with the new government. guess I'm not the most optimistic about it because the liberal

government, right? So I guess I just wasn't optimistic about it. And I heard a lot of talks and stuff. I'm hoping it could become true. guess I'm just, you know, doing my best pulling together.

Matt (42:45)
So I guess I just wasn't optimistic about it. And I've heard a lot of talks and stuff. I'm hoping it becomes true, I guess. I'm just doing my best pulling together.

Soham Mehta (42:49)
I'm hoping it come true, guess. I'm just doing my best, pulling it together.

Matt (42:54)
Yeah, honestly, I've been kind of surprised at his policies that I feel like have been more in line with conservatives. Although at the end of the day, he is a central banker. So I'm always going to have my bias. But I mean, you you look at it, you've got Trump who's pro crypto and has kind of been corrupt in terms of kind of using that to enrich

Soham Mehta (42:54)
Yeah, honestly, I've been kind surprised at these policies that I feel like they've been more in line with conservatives. Although at the of the day, he's a hyperbanker. So I've always been at my bias. But I mean, if you look at it, you've got Trump, who's pro-crypto, and it's kind of been corrupt.

George Pu (42:55)
I'm kind of surprised at his policies that I feel like have been more in line with conservatives. Although at the end of the day, he is a central banker. So I'm always going to have my bias. But I mean, you look at it, you've got Trump who's pro crypto and has kind of been corrupt in terms of kind of using that to enrich

Soham Mehta (43:12)
in terms of kind of using that to enrich

George Pu (43:14)
himself and his friends and the Trump coin. And it's kind of like a game of whoever pays kind of gets in. And so that's not great.

Soham Mehta (43:14)
himself and his friends and the Trump coin. It's kind of like a game of who ever pays, kind of gets in. So that's not great. And you know, a central banker in Canada that's kind of doing more conservative policies. So I mean, step away and see what happens. I'm all for Bitcoin. I'm all for the president being pro-Bitcoin.

Matt (43:14)
himself and his friends and the Trump coin and it's kind of like a game of you know whoever pays kind of gets in and so that's not great and you have a central banker in Canada that's kind of kind of doing more conservative policies so I mean we'll just have to play out and see see what happens I'm all for Bitcoin I'm all for a president being pro Bitcoin

George Pu (43:24)
And you have a central banker in Canada that's kind of doing more conservative policies. So I mean, we'll just have to play out and see what happens. I'm all for Bitcoin. I'm all for a president being pro-Bitcoin.

Matt (43:37)
I don't think corruption is great though it's not it's not a good look

George Pu (43:37)
I don't think corruption's great though. It's not a good look. Yeah, coming from China, can see it. Corruption. Yeah, it's bit difficult to see, I guess.

Soham Mehta (43:38)
I don't think props are great though. It's not a good look. Yeah, I'm from China. It's bit difficult to see, I guess.

Matt (43:43)
Corruption. Yeah, it's bit difficult to see.

I'm trying what I'm trying to do myself is I'm just I'm just trying to really pull myself away from national big conversations and just trying to think about like things like control things I could do well,

George Pu (43:49)
I'm trying what I'm trying to do myself is I'm just I'm just trying to really pull myself away from national big conversations and just trying to think about like things that can control things I could do well, you know, because I feel like whatever a car knee or trauma or whoever it does, I mean, I don't really have it.

Soham Mehta (43:49)
What I'm trying to do myself is I'm just trying to really pull myself away from national big conversations and just trying to think about things that control things that I could do well. Because I feel like whatever Karney or Trump or whoever it does, I don't really have control of that through votes or otherwise, right? Maybe through votes, yes, I can control a little bit of that.

George Pu (44:03)
control of that through votes or otherwise right maybe through votes yes i can i can control bit that

Matt (44:04)
or otherwise right maybe through both yes I can control little bit that

but I think on a larger conversations there's just like not much you could do giving like the things that you know the things they apply for yourself so I just do my the best to plan for myself and try to not

George Pu (44:08)
but i think on a larger conversations there's just like not much you could do given like the things that you know the things you have planned for yourself so i just do my the best to plan for myself and try to not focus too much on the noise you know that's how i think about it well george you're focused on like how do do the best for your company how do you set up a bitcoin treasury you know how do you do right like these are the things that you're focused on right like i think the classic meme

Soham Mehta (44:08)
But I think on a lot of our chat conversations, it's just like, not that you could do, given the things that you know, the things that you have for yourself. So I just do the best plan for myself.

trying to not focus too much on the noise. That's how I think about it. Well, George, you're focused on how do you do the best for your company? How do you settle the Bitcoin treasury? These are the things that you're focused on. I think the classic meme

Matt (44:18)
too much of a noise. That's how I think about it. Well, George, you're focused on like, how do you do the best for your company? How do you set up a Bitcoin treasury? You know, how do you? Right? Like these are the things that you're focused on, right? Like I think the classic meme in

Soham Mehta (44:33)
in Bitcoin is stack stats and focus on your craft, which I think is very accurate. think the news kind of...

George Pu (44:33)
Bitcoin is ⁓ stack stats and focus on your craft. I think it's very accurate. think the news kind of puts people off every little while.

Matt (44:33)
Bitcoin is stack sats and focus on your craft, right? Which I think is very accurate. I think the news kind of, you know, puts people off every little while and everyone gets anxious about it. And it's like, you know, maybe you should go.

Soham Mehta (44:41)
you know, puts people off every little while, everyone gets anxious about it. It's like, you know, maybe you go

George Pu (44:45)
anxious about it and it's like you know maybe you should go

Soham Mehta (44:48)
outside,

Matt (44:48)
outside, get some vitamin D, you work out, know, focus on your craft and stack stats and you'll probably live a good life. that's the best advice anyone can give.

George Pu (44:48)
outside get some vitamin D you work out you know focus on your craft and stack stacks and you'll probably live a good life so yeah I think the goal is living a good life I think there's actually many ways you can do it wherever you are right where and never it's like Egypt or Canada or

Soham Mehta (44:49)
some vitamin D, you work out, know, focus on your craft, stack stacks, and you'll probably live a good life. So that's the best advice I can give you. Wherever you are, you're in, let me say Egypt or Canada or Norway or...

George Pu (45:06)
you know, wherever Africa, like wherever it is, I think there's always a way for you to make it and be successful and also be happy, which I think it's a very, like, or live a happy life. It's very important. So what's your final take on this?

Soham Mehta (45:06)
You know, wherever we're at in Africa, wherever we're this, I think there's always a way for you to make it and be successful and also be happy because I think it's a very, like, we're all living a happy life. It's very important. So I'm also your friend, thanks.

Matt (45:11)
successful and also be happy which I think is a very like or live a happy life it's very important so what's your final take on this?

I agree completely. Okay yeah I think I think future is like I wouldn't say future is bright but future is fluid I guess so it's all up to us. The future is fluid geez George oh yeah we might you know we might go to Mars or we might blow ourselves up you know. That's actually exactly what I meant like future is fluid. We never know what's coming so I think we'll

Soham Mehta (45:18)
I agree completely. Yeah, think, think in future it's like, I don't know, I'll...

George Pu (45:19)
Okay, yeah, I think I think future is like I don't know I wouldn't say features bright but future is fluid I guess so it's all up to us That's actually exactly what I meant like futures fluid we never know what's coming so I think what

Soham Mehta (45:24)
The is bright, the future is fluid, I guess. it's all up to us. The future is fluid. Oh yeah, I like I go to Mars or ride along with someone. We never know what's coming. So think what

George Pu (45:40)
we

Soham Mehta (45:40)
people can do is to plan ahead for the better.

George Pu (45:40)
can do is to plan head for the better ⁓

Matt (45:41)
to plan ahead for the better. I'm inspired George the future is fluid there we go the future is no come on the future is Bitcoin let's go.

Soham Mehta (45:42)
I'm inspired, Doris. The future is fluid. There we go. But then I was like, the future is big, boy. Let's go.

But I there is a beauty in the future being fluid. means you have a little bit of say in being able to build it too, Yeah. Which is nice. think I was like, initially I thought the media was really putting towards a trummy dictator.

George Pu (45:49)
I think there's a beauty in the future of being a flow. It means you have a little bit of say in being able to build that too, right?

Matt (45:49)
I think there's a beauty in the future being fluid. you have a little bit say in being able to build that too right? Yeah yeah I think I was like initially I thought I thought like the media was like really putting towards like trying to be like a

Soham Mehta (46:03)
And the harder it is to believe it. Like when it was the first start of the first couple of weeks. And I really thought, okay, that might be happening. really need to start that. And then, you know, after all that, the facts prove it for themselves. It's like, okay, it's not a dictatorship. It's still a bunch of democracy and he's trying to do a bunch of policies that he really believes in. So, okay, wait, you think it's So I think time always corrects itself about things that you don't have to rethink.

Matt (46:04)
part of me actually believed it. When it was the first start or the first couple weeks. And I really thought, okay, that might be happening. really need to like, stop copying. And then, you know, like, and then after all that, just, like the facts prove it for themselves. It's like, okay, it's not a dictatorship. It's still a function of democracy. And he's just trying to do a bunch of policies that he really believes in. So, okay, great, moving on. know, so like, think, think,

George Pu (46:05)
Like when it first when it was the first first started or the first like couple weeks and I really thought okay that might be happening I really need to like suck up and all of that and then you know like and then and then after all that it just it like the facts prove it for themselves It's like okay, it's not a dictatorship It's still a functional democracy and he's just trying to do a bunch of policies that he really believes in So, okay great moving on, you know So like I think I think time always just like corrects itself about things that you sometimes you think

Matt (46:30)
is just like correct yourself about things that you think it

George Pu (46:33)
it is so like tomorrow I might have a different

Soham Mehta (46:33)
So like tomorrow I have a different opinion about something than today. I think it's a part of process. You always learn. I don't think I'm always right. And that's a beautiful thing. That's the important thing with legal. People who think they're always right are usually wrong. Yeah, awesome.

Matt (46:33)
is. So like tomorrow I might have a different opinion about something than today. I think that's just part of process. You always learn. Like I don't think I'm always right. And that's a beautiful thing. You know? That's the important thing with ego. If people who think they're always right are usually wrong. So. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Thanks guys for the episode. And again, I want you to see if you any questions. Ping us on Twitter and ping us on YouTube or wherever.

George Pu (46:35)
opinion about something than today I think that's just part of process you always learn like I'm I don't think I'm always right and that's a beautiful thing you know yeah awesome okay thanks guys for the episode and again audience if any questions ping us on Twitter and ping us on YouTube or wherever

Soham Mehta (46:51)
Okay, thanks guys for the episode and again, audience if you have any questions, hang us on Twitter and play us on YouTube or everywhere

George Pu (46:59)
else you can find us or actually yeah also the Spotify comment section maybe it goes so good way to let us know what you think

Soham Mehta (46:59)
else you can find us. Or actually also the Spotify department section, maybe it would also be a way to let us know what you think. Okay, thank you for tuning in.

Matt (46:59)
you can find us. actually yeah, also the Spotify comment section may be a good way to let know what you think. Okay?

George Pu (47:05)
Okay? Thank you.

Matt (47:06)
Thank you.