Quarter-Life Capital

George Pu (00:01.185)
Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Quarter Life Capital. I'm here with Matt and Soham. So we're changing the format of the podcast a little bit and we want to talk more about things that matter more to our listeners who are in their 20s. So there's one topic that are many people telling us about on Twitter, which is, Matt, I'm really interested in buying Bitcoin. However, I'm really afraid I don't know much about the technologies behind Bitcoin. And Matt, actually, my dad told me the other day,

Matt (00:01.186)
Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Quadralife Capital. I'm here with Matt and Soham. So we're changing the format of the podcast a little bit and we want to talk more about things that matter more to our listeners who are in their 20s. So there's one topic that are many people telling us about on Twitter, which is, Matt, I'm really interested in buying Bitcoin.

Soham Mehta (00:01.31)
Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Quarter Life Capital I'm here with Matt and Sohpam. So we're changing the format of this podcast a little bit and we want to talk more about things that matter more to our listeners who are in their 20s. So there's one topic that are many people telling us about on Twitter, which is, Matt, I'm really interested in buying Bitcoin. However, I'm really afraid I don't know much about the technologies behind Bitcoin. And Matt, actually, my dad told me the other day,

Matt (00:22.87)
However, I'm really afraid I don't know much about technologies behind Bitcoin. And actually, my dad told me the other day that he's really worried about Google's latest quantum computing development because he's really afraid that if really like the Google and my

George Pu (00:30.603)
that he's really worried about Google's latest quantum computing development because he's really afraid that if really like the Google and Microsoft quantum computing is so advanced, they can even one day crack the Bitcoin encryption algorithm and basically stealing Satoshi's coins, where Satoshi has a lot of supplies. So Matt, I know you get this a lot probably. What's your response to the quantum computing threat to Bitcoin?

Soham Mehta (00:30.75)
that he's really worried about Google's latest quantum computing development because he's really afraid that if really like the Google and Microsoft quantum computing is so advanced, they can even one day crack the Bitcoin encryption algorithm and basically stealing Satoshi's coins, which Satoshi has a lot of supplies. So Matt, I know you get this a lot probably. What's your response to the quantum computing threat to Bitcoin?

Matt (00:39.534)
quantum computing is so advanced they can even one day crack the Bitcoin encryption algorithm and basically stealing Satoshi's coins where Satoshi has a lot of supplies. So Matt I know you get this a lot probably what's your response to the quantum computing threat to Bitcoin? I think the reality with something like quantum computers is like it's not really a huge risk for Bitcoin right now. It's a non-zero risk right like there is a risk to quantum but it is ridiculous

George Pu (00:58.187)
I think the reality with something like quantum computers is like, it's not really a huge risk for Bitcoin right now. It's a non-zero risk, right? Like there is a risk to quantum, but it is ridiculously low right now. The amount of quantum computing power that Microsoft actually had was not even close to being able to break any type of Bitcoin private key. And I would say there's also another element too, which is that, you know, there's different types of Bitcoin addresses and the...

Soham Mehta (00:58.302)
I think the reality with something like quantum computers is like, it's not really a huge risk for Bitcoin right now. It's a non-zero risk, right? Like there is a risk to quantum, but it is ridiculously low right now. The amount of quantum computing power that Microsoft actually had was not even close to being able to break any type of Bitcoin private key. And I would say there's also another element too, which is that, you know, there's different types of Bitcoin addresses and the-

Matt (01:09.488)
low right now. The amount of quantum computing power that Microsoft actually had was not even close to being able to break any type of Bitcoin private key. And I would say there's also another element too, which is that, you know, there's different types of Bitcoin addresses and the usual coins that you see today are actually extremely safe, right? You take, it's actually using, you know, there's two things behind it that are actually protecting it. And one, which is the public private

George Pu (01:27.413)
Like the usual coins that you see today are actually extremely safe, right? You take, it's actually using, you know, there's two things behind it that are actually protecting it. That, and one, one, which is the public private key cryptography and the other is the hash function. And a hash function is actually quantum, quantum resistant. So it is not at risk of being cracked anytime soon. There are certain coins that are more at risk, such as Satoshi's coins, for example.

Soham Mehta (01:27.548)
Like the usual coins that you see today are actually extremely safe, right? You take, it's actually using, you know, there's two things behind it that are actually protecting it. That, and one, one, which is the public private key cryptography and the other is that hash function and a hash function is actually quantum, quantum resistant. So it is not at risk of, being cracked anytime soon. There are certain points that are more at risk, such as Satoshi's coins, for example.

Matt (01:39.38)
to keep cryptography and the other is the hash function and a hash function is actually quantum, quantum resistant. So it is not at risk of, being cracked anytime soon. There are certain coins that are more at risk, such as Satoshi's coins, for example, but the majority of folks are really not, not at, not at risk anytime soon. Yeah. And so I want to get to so home. So, what do you think of the technology advancement in Google?

George Pu (01:55.639)
But the majority of folks are really not at risk anytime soon. Yeah, and Soham, I want to get to Soham. So what do you think of the technology advancement in Google and Microsoft? So Matt just talked about the encryption might be a good way to block this. What are your thoughts about the threat? I think what Matt's saying about the fact that it's non-zero is real. It obviously, you think.

Soham Mehta (01:55.774)
But the majority of folks are really not at risk anytime soon. Yeah. And Soham, I want to get to Soham. So what do you think of the technology advancement in Google and Microsoft? So Matt just talked about the encryption might be a good way to block this. What are your thoughts about the threat? I think what Matt's saying about the fact that it's non-zero is real. It obviously you think. You can't just treat it as some kind of science fiction with curiosity. It's something that exists.

Matt (02:06.669)
So Matt just talked about the encryption might be a good way to block this. What are your thoughts about the thread? I think what Matt's saying about the fact that it's non-zero is real.

thing. You can't just create some kind of science fiction with curiosity. It's something that exists. But this kind of also has to be dwelled into the idea that first of all, we're starting to talk about this already today. This technology isn't something that's going to be coming in for next at least five or 10 years, if not more time. We're nowhere near close being a crack it. I Microsoft came out with this idea of like a state of matter.

George Pu (02:19.926)
It's you can just treat it as some kind of science fiction with curiosity. It's something that exists But this kind of also has to be dwelled into the idea that first of all We're starting to talk about this already today This technology isn't something that's going to be coming in for next at least five or ten years if not more time We're nowhere near close being will crack it I think Microsoft came out with this idea of like a state of matter that isn't liquid gas or solid for

Soham Mehta (02:25.555)
But this kind of also has to be dwelled into the idea that first of all, we're starting to talk about this already today. This technology isn't something that's gonna be coming in for next at least five or 10 years, if not more time. We're nowhere near close being with crack it. I think Microsoft came out with this idea of like a state of matter that isn't liquid, gas or solid for their quantum chip. So that's exciting.

Matt (02:45.005)
that isn't liquid, gas, or solid for their quantum chip. So that's exciting. But that's again like step three out of like a 10, 12 step plan to be able to actually get to that quantum computer. So you'll have a decade to be able to actually swap in some kind of a technology that can actually protect the Bitcoin network.

George Pu (02:49.88)
their quantum chip. So that's exciting but that's again like step three out of like a 10-12 step plan to be able to actually get to that quantum computer. So you'll have a decade to be able to actually swap in some kind of a technology that can actually protect the Bitcoin network but then I guess the even bigger point is

Soham Mehta (02:53.575)
But that's again, like step three out of like a 10, 12 step plan to be able to actually get to that quantum computer. So you'll have a decade to be able to actually swap in some kind of a technology that can actually protect the Bitcoin network. But then I guess the even bigger point is outside of Bitcoin, there's so much easier, lower encrypted things that would have more value in terms of cash. Like a lot of banks would be a lot easier to be able to have some kind of like

Matt (03:07.597)
But then I guess the even bigger point is outside of Bitcoin, there's so much easier, lower encrypted things that would have more value in terms of cash. a lot of banks would be a lot easier to be able to have some kind of like that from along those lines. I think it makes sense to like stop kind of like making this like a Bitcoin specific problem. The quantum computing some that's a bit a lot more existential overall.

George Pu (03:10.71)
Outside of Bitcoin, there's so much easier, lower encrypted things that will have more value in terms of cash. A lot of banks would be a lot easier to be able to have some kind of like depth from along those lines. I think it makes sense to like stop kind of like making this like a Bitcoin specific problem. Like quantum computing is something that's a lot more existential overall. Yeah, that's a great point. I think banks and institutions, they're much more old school than the Bitcoin protocol. So maybe they are the ones that should

Soham Mehta (03:22.195)
that from along those lines. I think it makes sense to like, stop kind of like making this like a Bitcoin specific problem. The quantum computing some that's a bit a lot more existential overall. Yeah, that's a great point. think banks institutions, they're much more old school than the Bitcoin protocol. So maybe they're the ones that should be afraid of hackers using quantum computing to hack it, right? So Matt, I want to get back to the main point of quantum compute, because even for me, I'm trying to understand exactly what quantum

Matt (03:33.858)
Yeah, that's a great point. think banks and institutions, they're much more old school than the Bitcoin protocol. So maybe they are the ones that should be afraid of hackers using quantum computing to hack it, right? So Matt, I want to get back to the main point of quantum compute, because even for me, I'm trying to understand exactly what quantum compute is and how is it applicable of cracking Bitcoin. So if you know, can you get our auto-

George Pu (03:40.627)
be afraid of hackers using quantum computing to hack it, right? So Matt, I want to get back to the main point of quantum compute because even for me, I'm trying to understand exactly what quantum commute is and how is it applicable of cracking Bitcoin? So if you know, can you get our audiences a little bit insight? Yeah, I mean, so the main concern here is

Soham Mehta (03:51.902)
good is and you know how does it how is it applicable cracking Bitcoin? So if you know can you get our audiences a little bit insight? Yeah I mean so the main concern here is you have so I mean first of all how does Bitcoin

Matt (03:58.638)
audience is a little bit insightful. Yeah, I mean, so the main concern here is

You have, so I mean first of all, how does Bitcoin even work? Right? How does Bitcoin work? You have public and private key cryptography and the basic idea is like what is a Bitcoin private key? All it is really is just a number, right? It's a number in a very large field, right? So how many total private keys are there in Bitcoin? There's two to the power of 256 minus one, which you know, as a human, you might be like, that's not that many, right? I could just brute force that with my computer. Well, no, it's actually, you know, larger than all of

George Pu (04:05.896)
You have, so I mean, first of all, how does Bitcoin even work? Right? How does Bitcoin work? You have public and private key cryptography. And the basic idea is like, what is a Bitcoin private key? All it is really is just a number, right? It's a number in a very large field, right? So how many, how many, how many total private keys are there in Bitcoin? There's two to the power of 256 minus one, which, you know, as a human, you might be like, that's not that many, right? I could just brute force that with my computer. Well, no, it's actually, you know, larger than all of

Soham Mehta (04:12.259)
cryptography and the basic idea is like what is a Bitcoin private key? All it is really is just a number. It's a number in a very large field. So how many total private keys are there in Bitcoin? There's 2 to the power 256 minus 1 which you know as a human you might be like oh that's not that many right I could just brute force that with my computer. Well no it's actually you know larger than all the atoms in the observable universe. It's a ridiculously like infathomable large number.

Matt (04:35.881)
atoms in the observable universe, right? It's a ridiculously like, infathomable large number. But the basic idea for,

George Pu (04:35.9)
atoms in the observable universe, right? It's a ridiculously like, infathomable large number. But the basic idea for

Soham Mehta (04:42.151)
But the basic idea for quantum, the whole idea behind public-private key cryptography in the first place is the idea behind it is that it's difficult to factor large numbers, right? Like that's very difficult thing to do and it takes linear time for a typical computer to do that. But the idea with the quantum computer is obviously you can, the fuel of space that you can test is much faster.

George Pu (04:45.172)
for quantum. The whole idea behind public private key cryptography in the first place is the idea behind it is that it's difficult to factor large numbers. That's very difficult thing to do and it takes linear time for a typical computer to do that. But the idea with a quantum computer is obviously you can the feel of space that you can test is much faster. And you can use things like like Shor's algorithm for breaking

Matt (04:45.207)
for quantum. The whole idea behind public private key cryptography in the first place is the idea behind it is that it's difficult to factor large numbers. That's very difficult thing to do and it takes linear time for a typical computer to do that. But the idea with a quantum computer is obviously you can, the field of space that you can test is much faster. And you can use things like like Shor's algorithm for breaking

Soham Mehta (05:11.443)
And you can use things like say that Schor's algorithm for breaking public-private key cryptography, like RSA and other cryptography schemes, and certain of them are like much, you know, more risky than others. And so like for most, like say like Bitcoin addresses, for example, right? Typically what you do is you go and you find a random number, right? So you take your random number and then you find on the elliptic curve, you find the public key version of that.

George Pu (05:15.146)
public private key cryptography for like RSA and other cryptography schemes. And certain of them are like much, you know, more risky than others. And so like for most, like say like Bitcoin addresses, for example, right? Typically what you do is you, you go and you find a random number, right? So you take your random number and then you find on the elliptic curve, you find the public key version of that. And that's, that's okay to share with people. You don't share with them this other random.

Matt (05:15.171)
public private key cryptography for like RSA and other cryptography schemes. And certain of them are like much, you know, more risky than others. And so like for most, like say like Bitcoin addresses, for example, right? Typically what you do is you, you go and you find a random number, right? So you take your random number and then you find on the elliptic curve, you find the public key version of that. And that's, that's okay to share with people. You don't share with them this other random.

Soham Mehta (05:40.584)
And that's okay to share with people. You don't share with them this other random number that you originally found. And what you do is you take that public key and then you hash it on top of that. That's basically like running it through another function that makes it even more difficult to figure out what this original random number was. And so what that means is that there's like, first of all, like if this public key is not revealed, it's much more difficult for the quantum computer to figure out what the private key is.

George Pu (05:44.919)
you number that you originally found. Um, and what you do is you take that public key and then you hash it on top of that. That's basically like running it through another function that makes it even more difficult to figure out what this original random number was. And so what that means is that there's like, you know, first of all, like if this public key is not revealed, it's much more difficult for the quantum computer to figure out what the private key is. And so, um, there's multiple layers to this for, you know, quantum computer to be able to break.

Matt (05:44.93)
you that you originally found.

what you do is you take that public key and then you hash it on top of that. That's basically like running it through another function that makes it even more difficult to figure out what this original random number was. And so what that means is that there's like, you know, first of all, like if this public key is not revealed, it's much more difficult for the quantum computer to figure out what the private key is. And so, there's multiple layers to this for, you know, a quantum computer to be able to break. What's interesting about this in particular is that Satoshi's coins were

Soham Mehta (06:09.231)
And so, there's multiple layers to this for, you know, quantum computer to be able to break. What's interesting about this in particular is that Satoshi's coins were actually set up such that, they don't have that last hash function on top. So it's only the public key, which means it's substantially more vulnerable and kind of, kind of almost like a bounty, right? It's almost like a quantum bounty that's sitting there. That's protecting everybody else's points, which is kind of fascinating. So

George Pu (06:14.622)
What's interesting about this in particular is that Satoshi's coins were actually set up such that they don't have that last hash function on top. So it's only the public key, which means it's substantially more vulnerable and kind of, kind of almost like a bounty, right? It's almost like a quantum bounty that's sitting there. That's protecting everybody else's coins, which is kind of fascinating. So are your coins at risk for quantum? I mean, not, not really, especially if you have that extra hash on top, which the majority of addresses do.

Matt (06:18.487)
actually set up such that they don't have that last hash function on top. So it's only the public key, which means it's substantially more vulnerable and kind of, kind of almost like a bounty, right? It's almost like a quantum bounty that's sitting there. That's protecting everybody else's coins, which is kind of fascinating. So are your coins at risk from quantum? I mean, not, not really, especially if you have that extra hash on top, which the majority of addresses do. But like will

Soham Mehta (06:35.251)
Are your points at risk from quantum? I mean not not really especially if you have that extra hash on top which the majority of addresses do but like will quantum computers ever be able to break typical public private key cryptography? Yes it's possible but I don't think it's anytime soon most Bitcoiners don't think it's in the next five ten twenty like maybe thirty years in the future. Yeah I think it's fair to say like who will have this technology right because it's such a well guarded secret.

George Pu (06:43.796)
But like will quantum computers ever be able to break typical public private key cryptography? Yes, it's possible, but I don't think it's anytime soon. Most Bitcoiners don't think it's in the next five, 10, 20, but maybe 30 years in the future. Yeah. And I think it's fair to say like who will have this technology, right? Because it's such a well guarded secret and also must be really expensive to run something like using quantum computing to steal Bitcoin. I'm not sure if the cost will actually be worth it.

Matt (06:45.389)
quantum computers ever be able to break typical public private key cryptography? Yes, it's possible, but I don't think it's anytime soon. Most Bitcoiners don't think it's in the next five, 10, 20, but maybe 30 years in the future. Yeah. And think it's fair to say like who will have this technology, right? Because it's such a well guarded secret and also must be really expensive to run something like using quantum computing to steal Bitcoin. I'm not sure if the cost will actually be worth it.

Soham Mehta (07:04.765)
And also it must be really expensive to run something that using content company to steal Bitcoin. I'm not sure if the cost will actually be worth it. Well, I feel like it's a weird thing too, because like whoever has this technology, right? So weird, like let's think through the game theory for a sec. Right? So if we think through the game theory, you've got like probably Microsoft or these big companies that might have access to this technology, but you're going to have other groups around the world as well that are going to have access to it. And they're going to be sitting there thinking,

George Pu (07:12.214)
Well, I feel like it's a weird thing too because like whoever has this technology, right? It's a weird, like let's think through the game theory for a sec, right? So if we think through the game theory, you've got like,

Matt (07:12.267)
Well, I feel like it's a weird thing too, because like whoever has this technology, right? It's a weird, like let's think through the game theory for a sec, right? So if we think through the game theory, you've got like probably Microsoft or these big companies that might have access to this technology, but you're going to have other groups around the world as well that are going to have access to it. And they're going to be sitting there thinking, okay, well, do I go and take, do I figure it out? If I figured out a private key,

George Pu (07:24.278)
probably Microsoft or these big companies that might have access to this technology, but you're going to have other groups around the world as well that are going to have access to it. And they're going to be sitting there thinking, okay, well, do I go and take, do I figure it out? If I figured out a private key using quantum, am I going to use that today in order to steal the points? Cause as soon as I do, everybody else is going to know that I have that. So what you might optimally do is you would try to crack as many private keys as possible and then try to take all those points all at

Soham Mehta (07:33.684)
Okay, well, do I go and take, do I figure it out? If I figured out a private key using quantum, am I going to use that today in order to steal the points? Cause as soon as I do, everybody else is going to know that I have that. So what you might optimally do is you would try to crack as many private keys as possible and then try to take all those points all at once. And so that's, that's a bit of a concern because imagine if

Matt (07:38.25)
using quantum, am I going to use that today in order to steal the coins? Cause as soon as I do, everybody else is going to know that I have that. So what you might optimally do, is you would try to crack as many private keys as possible and then try to take all those coins all at once. and so that's, that's a bit of a concern because imagine if Satoshi's coins one day, might be 30 years in the future, 50 years in the future. Imagine if one day his coins are, the private keys are figured out to them.

George Pu (07:54.185)
once. And so that's a bit of a concern because imagine if Satoshi's coins one day, it might be 30 years in the future, 50 years in the future. Imagine if one day his coins are, the private keys are figured out to them and then a attacker goes and tries to steal all those coins all at once. Well, if that happens, that's going to flood the network with transactions all at once. And so a lot of Bitcoiners have been thinking about, okay, well how do we protect against this? Well, one way is just to confiscate Bitcoin or

Soham Mehta (07:59.58)
Satoshi's coins one day. It might be 30 years in the future, 50 years in the future. Imagine if one day his coins are, the private keys are figured out to them and that attacker goes and tries to steal all those coins all at once. Well, if that happens, that's going to flood the network with transactions all at once. And so a lot of Bitcoiners have been thinking about, okay, well, how do we protect against this? Well, one way is just to confiscate Bitcoin, sorry, one way is to confiscate Satoshi's coins, which is to say basically censor Satoshi.

Matt (08:08.383)
And that attacker goes and tries to steal all those coins all at once. Well, if that happens, that's going to flood the network with transactions all at once. And so a lot of Bitcoiners have been thinking about, okay, well, how do we protect against this? Well, one way is just to confiscate Bitcoin or

Sorry. One way is to confiscate Satoshi's coins, which is to say basically censor Satoshi, which is kind of a strange thing, right? We have the 21 million cap and if we can take away Satoshi's coins and we can take anyone else's coins away. So, I mean, that's not a great solution. The other one is to go ahead and say, okay, well we're going to do nothing, which, okay, well then you have that.

George Pu (08:22.472)
Sorry. One way is to confiscate Satoshi's coins, which is to say basically censor Satoshi, which is kind of a strange thing, right? We have the 21 million cap and if we can take away Satoshi's coins and we can take anyone else's coins away. So, I mean, that's not a great solution. The other one is to go ahead and say, okay, well, we're going to do nothing, which, okay, well then you have that.

Soham Mehta (08:27.763)
which is kind of a strange thing, right? We have a 21 million cap and if we could take away Satoshi's coins and we can take anyone else's coins away. So, I mean, that's not a great solution. The other one is to go ahead and say, okay, well, we're going to do nothing, which, okay, well then you have that edge case of those transactions flooding the network and the network becoming unusable. And also a massive short event occurring on Bitcoin, you know, where there'll be a ton of sell-out is going off in a short period of time.

George Pu (08:43.09)
edge case of those transactions flooding the network and the network becoming unusable and also a massive short event occurring on Bitcoin. You know, where there'll be a ton of sellers going off in a short period of time. And the third is like actually one that was so Hunter Beast, he came up with a proposal and he's a quantum.

Matt (08:43.103)
edge case of those transactions flooding the network and the network becoming unusable. And also a massive short event occurring on Bitcoin. You know, where there'll be a ton of sell orders going off in a short period of time. And the third is like actually one that was,

Soham Mehta (08:56.499)
And the third is like actually one that was so Hunter Beast he came up with a proposal and he's a quantum cryptography researcher which was called the hourglass method which is essentially rather than either the prior two methods instead of censorship or doing nothing what you can do is only allow for one transaction to come through per block so that means every 10 minutes is this one. So what you say is hey in three years we're going to activate this new

Matt (09:01.325)
So Hunter Beast, came up with a proposal and he's a quantum cryptography researcher, which was called the hourglass method, which is essentially rather than either the prior two methods instead of censorship or doing nothing, what you can do.

George Pu (09:05.31)
cryptography researcher, which was called the hourglass method, which is essentially rather than either the prior two methods, instead of censorship or doing nothing, what you can do is only allow for one transaction to come through per block. So that means every 10 minutes of Bitcoin. So what you say is, Hey, in three years, we're going to activate this new proposal that's going to prevent coins of this nature to only allow one per block, which

Matt (09:17.279)
is only allowed for one transaction to come through per block. So that means every 10 minutes of Bitcoin. So what you say is, Hey, in three years, we're going to activate this new proposal that's going to, you know, prevent, coins of this nature to, you know, only allow one per block, which then basically just makes it more difficult for an attacker to get all those transactions at once. And we'll make it very slow for them to actually drain Satoshi's wallet, which I think is a nice, happy medium.

Soham Mehta (09:26.215)
proposal that's going to prevent coins of this nature to only allow one per block which then basically just makes it more difficult for an imposter to get all those transactions at once and will make it very slow for them to actually drain Satoshi's wallet which I think is a nice happy medium.

George Pu (09:35.189)
That basically just makes it more difficult for an attacker to get all those transactions at once and will make it very slow for them to actually drain Satoshi's wallet, which I think is a nice happy medium. That's very interesting. So Hum, I want to talk more about, I know you have recently got into Bitcoin, maybe in the recent past year. So are you personally like worried about someone stealing your Bitcoin by using quantum hack or social hacks?

Matt (09:47.085)
That's very interesting. So how about...

got into Bitcoin maybe in the recent past year so are you personally like worried about someone stealing your Bitcoin by using quantum hack or social hacks? So I mainly use the ETF itself for my investing so I think I've taken the security part away from me however BlackRock wants to do it but I think on the larger higher scale point

Soham Mehta (09:55.54)
worried about someone stealing your Bitcoin by using quantum hacks or social hacks? So I mainly use the ETF itself for my investing. So I think I've taken the security part away from me. However, BlackRock wants to do it. I'll allow them. But I think on the larger, higher scale point, I don't think there is a worry because again, like I feel like we're talking about this so early.

George Pu (10:02.486)
So I mainly use the ETF itself for my investment So, okay, I think I've taken the security part away from me however Blackrock wants to do it But I think on the larger higher scale point

I don't think there is a worry because again, like I feel like we're talking about this so early. We can get the plans in motion. Like what Matt's saying that Hunter had a pitch for how to be able to like deal with like the weakest Bitcoin, which would be Satoshi's in this situation.

Matt (10:19.275)
I don't think there is a worry because again, like I feel like we're talking about this so early. We can get the plans in motion. Like what Matt's saying that Hunter had a pitch for how to be able to like deal with like the weakest Bitcoin, which would be Satoshi's in the situation. If we can figure that out, then I don't think a lot of this is a worry at the time when this should be a worry because it will all have been.

Soham Mehta (10:25.543)
We can get the plans in motion. what Matt's saying that Hunter had a pitch for how to be able to like deal with like the weakest Bitcoin, which would be Satoshi's in this situation. If we can figure that out, then I don't think a lot of this is a worry at the time when this should be a worry because it'll all have been already protected beforehand. And I guess that's my entire main concern is just like, as long as we keep planning, I don't think there is any.

George Pu (10:37.01)
If we can figure that out, then I don't think a lot of this is a worry at the time when this should be a worry because it all had been already protected before. And I guess that's my entire main concern is just like, long as we keep planning, I don't think there is anything much on this. Well, we should talk about the ETF risk though. Maybe for another, well, it's an interesting thing, right? Because obviously the BlackRock's coins, aren't a

Matt (10:49.223)
I guess that's my entire main concern is just like as long as we keep planning, I don't think there is anything much on this. Well, we should talk about the ETF risk though. Maybe for another. Well, it's an interesting thing, right? Because obviously the

Soham Mehta (10:55.519)
much on this. We should talk about the ETF risk though. It's an interesting thing right because obviously the BlackRock's coins are in addresses that are are there quantum resistant and held with custodians and whatnot but there is a separate risk that's involved which is basically with the ETFs holding so much of the coin questions around which fork is legitimate say there's a new proposal to Bitcoin

Matt (11:04.429)
Blackrock's coins are in addresses that are are there quantum resistant and held with custodians and whatnot. But there is a separate risk that's involved, which is basically with the ETFs holding so much of the coin questions around which fork is legitimate. Say there's a new proposal to Bitcoin and maybe one of those proposals has to do with quantum, right? So Hunter goes out and proposes the idea of this hourglass method for quantum upgrades. But then Blackrock

George Pu (11:07.084)
that are in other quantum resistant and held with custodians and whatnot. But there is a separate risk that's involved, which is basically with the ETFs holding so much of the coin questions around which fork is legitimate. Say there's a new proposal to Bitcoin and maybe one of those proposals has to do with quantum, right? So Hunter goes out and proposes the idea of this hourglass method for quantum upgrades. But then BlackRock wants to prevent that from going through.

Soham Mehta (11:22.687)
and, and maybe one of those proposals has to do with quantum, right? So Hunter goes out and proposes the idea of this hourglass method for, quantum upgrades. but then BlackRock wants to prevent that from going through. And then basically they, they, you know, make them as the custodian, both coinbase as the custodian, but they determine what is the valid for Bitcoin or what is the valid upgrade, right? So at what point does owning a significant amount of coin by these custodians.

Matt (11:34.336)
wants to prevent that from going through. then basically they, you know, them as the custodian, well, Coinbase is the custodian, but they determine what is the valid fork in Bitcoin or what is the valid upgrade, right? So at what point does owning a significant amount of coin by these custodians, do they then have more control in determining, you know, what is the valid upgrade to Bitcoin, which becomes a little strange because everyone who then holds the ETF is basically delegating, you know, their support for a particular

George Pu (11:36.777)
And then basically they make them as the custodian, well Coinbase is the custodian, but they determine what is the valid fork in Bitcoin or what is the valid upgrade, right? So at what point does owning a significant amount of coin by these custodians, do they then have more control in determining what is the valid upgrade to Bitcoin, which becomes a little strange because everyone who then holds the ETF is basically delegating their support for a particular upgrade to BlackRock or whatever.

Soham Mehta (11:51.678)
Do they then have more control in determining what is the valid upgrade to Bitcoin? Which becomes a little strange because everyone who then holds the ETF is basically delegating their support for a particular upgrade to BlackRock or whatever custodian is holding it. So are you delegating your rights as a Bitcoin holder, your rights of the Bitcoin to BlackRock and the other ETF providers when you sell it? Sorry, when you buy it.

Matt (12:04.239)
upgrade to BlackRock or whatever custodian is holding it. So are you delegating your rights as a Bitcoin holder, your rights of the Bitcoin to BlackRock and the other ETF providers when you sell it? Sorry, when you buy it? In a way, kind of, right? Because you're delegating to them to say, you know, what if, for example,

George Pu (12:06.69)
Stodian is holding it. So are you delegating your rights as a Bitcoin holder, your rights of the Bitcoin to BlackRock and the other ETF providers when you sell it? Sorry, when you buy it? In a way, kind of, right? Because you're delegating to them to say, you know, what if, for example,

Soham Mehta (12:17.565)
Like in a way kind of, right? Cause you're, you're delegating to them to say, you know, what if, example, the, what if you end up in a world where the majority of Bitcoin is held in custodians and you have a contentious hard fork that occurs and then those custodians determine, one of those forks is the valid one. Right? So if you were just, if ever, if you would assume that everyone was just an individual Bitcoin user and had, was running their own validating full node.

Matt (12:24.525)
What if you end up in a world where the majority of Bitcoin is held in custodians and you have a contentious hard fork that occurs? And then those custodians determine one of those forks is the valid one.

George Pu (12:25.113)
What if you end up in a world where the majority of Bitcoin is held in custodians and you have a contentious hard fork that occurs? And then those custodians determine one of those forks is the valid one, right? So if you would assume that everyone was just an individual Bitcoin user and was running their own validating full node, then they for themselves can choose what is the valid fork, right? This occurred not that long ago during the block size wars of 2017 where you had Bitcoin

Matt (12:37.941)
Right? So if you were just, if ever, if you would assume that everyone was just an individual Bitcoin user and had, was running their own validating full node, then they for themselves can choose what is the valid fork. Right? This, this occurred not that long ago during the block size wars of 2017, where you had Bitcoin, Bitcoin cash versus Bitcoin segway. Right? And the small blockers won where, and then what happened was the market decided, right? The market decided by selling Bitcoin cash, the value of Bitcoin cash is now

Soham Mehta (12:45.651)
then they for themselves can choose what is the ballot for. This occurred not that long ago during the block size wars of 2017 where you had Bitcoin Cash versus Bitcoin Segway, right? And the small blockers won. And then what happened was the market decided, right? The market decided by selling Bitcoin Cash, the value of Bitcoin Cash is now one one hundredth of a Bitcoin at this point.

George Pu (12:54.608)
Bitcoin cash versus Bitcoin segue right and the small blockers one where and and then what happened was the market decided right the market decided by selling Bitcoin cash the value of Bitcoin cash is now one one hundredth of a Bitcoin at this point But the thing is you don't have that optionality as a user to be able to choose which fork is valid to you Because you've delegated that to the custodian. So if a contentious hard fork comes in Suddenly they can choose so then

Matt (13:07.855)
1 one hundredth of a Bitcoin at this point. But the thing is you don't have that optionality as a user to be able to choose which fork is valid to you because you've delegated that to the custodian. So if a contentious hard fork comes in, suddenly they can choose. So then BlackRock would say, oh, this is a legitimate fork and we're selling the other one on a secondary market. And you as an owner of the ETF does not have the right to the fork that they're selling. So yeah, you kind of do delegate.

Soham Mehta (13:11.571)
But the thing is you don't have that optionality as a user to be able to choose which fork is valid to you because you've delegated that to the custodian. So if a contentious hard fork comes in, suddenly they can choose. So then BlackRock would say, oh, this is a legitimate fork and we're selling the other one on a secondary market. And you as an owner of the ETF does not have the right to the fork that they're selling. So yeah, you kind of do delegate those rights away.

George Pu (13:24.408)
Blackrock would say oh this is a legitimate fork and we're selling the other one on a secondary market and you as a owner of the ETF does not have the right to the fork that they're selling. yeah you kind of do delegate those those rights away. Yeah so I know you're buying ETFs, Bitcoin ETFs, you probably hold some right now so how do you feel about holding them? Does what Matt said changes your opinion in any way? To a certain extent maybe but I think

Matt (13:37.928)
those rights away. Yeah so I know you're buying ETFs, Bitcoin ETFs, you probably hold some right now so how do you feel about holding them? Does what Matt said changes your opinion in any way? To a certain extent maybe but I think there's still the optionality that right now the structure for in-kind transfer is being built as well so in the case that you do want to take the Bitcoin away from Blackrock and keep it as like actual Bitcoin

Soham Mehta (13:39.954)
Yeah, so I know you're buying ETFs, Bitcoin ETFs. You probably hold some right now. So how do you feel about holding them? Does what Matt said changes your opinion anyway? To a certain extent, maybe. But I think there's still the optionality that right now the structure for in-kind transfer is being built as well. So in the case that you do want to take the Bitcoin away from BlackRock and keep it as like actual Bitcoin, I do think there's a lot of validity in the idea that

George Pu (13:54.241)
There's still the optionality that right now the structure for in-kind transfer is being built as well. So in the case that you do want to take the Bitcoin away from Blackrock and keep it as like actual Bitcoin.

I do think there's a lot of validity in the idea that whoever holds the asset has some form of power over it. so in the case like right here, what Matt's mentioning that Blackrock is the one that's the holder of it, or guess Coinbase is the ultimate holder. They have a lot more power in situation than they would, irregardless. But it also reminds me of this like one riddle that Game of Thrones kind of had. It's this idea that there's a king, the richest man of the land and the bishop are all telling the sellsword to kill

Matt (14:07.213)
only thing is a lot of validity in the idea that whoever holds the asset has some form of power over it. And so in the case like right here, what Matt's mentioning, Blackrock is the one that's the holder of it. Or guess Coinbase is the ultimate holder. They have a lot more power.

Soham Mehta (14:09.203)
whoever holds the asset has some form of power over it. And so in the case like right here, what Matt's mentioning that Blackrock is the one that's the holder of it, or guess Coinbase is the ultimate holder. They have a lot more power in the situation than they would, irregardless. But it also reminds me of this like one riddle that Game of Thrones kind of had. It's this idea that there's a king, the richest man of the land and the bishop are all telling the sellsword to kill the other two.

Matt (14:21.309)
situation than they would irregardless but it also reminds me of this like one riddle that Game of Thrones kind of had is this idea that there's a king the richest man of the land and the bishop are all telling the sellsword to kill the other two who would the sellsword listen to and in situation like this I think the power is in whoever the people believe the power

George Pu (14:36.842)
other two who would the sellsword listen to and in situation like this I think the power is in whoever the people believe the power is in and because the sellsword theoretically has the choice so if he has the power for money you pick the richest man the actual king would be the king or the bishop would be in terms of God then whichever way you go with it and in this situation

Soham Mehta (14:38.077)
who would the sellsword listen to? And in situation like this, I think the power is in whoever the people believe the power is in. Because the sellsword theoretically has the choice. So if he has the power of, for money, he would pick the richest man. The actual king would be the king, or the bishop would be in terms of God. whichever way you go with it. And in this situation, if people actually do want to kind of like take Black Rock's like riding,

Matt (14:44.103)
in and because the cell sort theoretically has the choice so if he has the power of a goal for money you pick the richest man the actual king would be the king or the bishop would be in terms of God then whichever way you go with it right and in this situation if people actually do want to kind of like take about Black Rocks like riding then I think it makes sense if like stick their money with the ETF they don't believe black right if they think that

George Pu (15:00.47)
If people actually do want to kind of like take BlackRock's like riding, then I think it makes sense. They like stick their money with the ETF. They don't believe BlackRock. They think that the way they're kind of going about it, I think just being able to take that off, you'd be able to sell it off like when Matt was mentioning Bitcoin Cash and just buy the actual Bitcoin itself. And so I think that's kind of like how you most likely see a situation play out in something like this. Well, I think you'd hope that they would give you that ability, basically.

Soham Mehta (15:05.735)
then I think it makes sense to like stick their money with the ETF. If they don't believe BlackRock, if they think that the way they're kind of like going about it, I think just being able to take that off, you'd be able to sell it off like what Matt was mentioning with Bitcoin Cash and just buy the actual Bitcoin itself. And so I think that's kind of like how you'd most likely see a situation play out in something like this. Well, I think you'd hope that they would give you that ability. Basically, you would hope that BlackRock would give you the ability to

Matt (15:13.813)
just being able to take that off you'd be able to sell it off like what Matt was mentioning with Bitcoin Cash and just buy the actual Bitcoin itself and so I think that's kind of like how you most likely see a situation play out.

In something like this Well, I think you'd hope that they would give you that ability basically you would hope that Blackrock would give you the ability to withdraw which I guess they're they're working on doing But in in the instance of that contentious hard fork occurring, what if they just turned it off? Well, then then now now now now they've removed that optionality So hopefully I don't know like I guess I would be hoping that they would put some some legal precedence in place but actually the legal precedence for Blackrock has been

George Pu (15:30.557)
that BlackRock would give you the ability to withdraw, which I guess they're working on doing. But in the instance of that contentious hard fork occurring, what if they just turn it off? Well then now they've removed that optionality. hopefully, I don't know, I guess I would be hoping that they would put some legal precedents in place. But actually the legal precedents for BlackRock has been, like they've specified the legal documents, we can determine which fork is valid.

Soham Mehta (15:34.26)
which I guess they're working on doing. But in the instance of that contentious hard fork occurring, what if they just turn it off? Well then now they've removed that optionality. hopefully, I don't know, I guess I would be hoping that they would put some legal precedents in place. But actually the legal precedents for BlackRock has been, they've specified in legal documents, we can determine which fork is valid. And they also,

Matt (15:55.18)
Like they've specified in the legal documents, we can determine which fork is valid. So, and, and they also, oh, they also put a clause in there too that said, you know, the 21 million is not guaranteed. And so everyone was kind of up in arms about that.

George Pu (16:00.46)
And they also put a clause in there too that said, you know, the 21 million is not guaranteed. And so everyone was kind of up in arms about that. Wow. So Matt, what do you think about like the near future, let's say the next 10 years, Bitcoin Tf is becoming more more popular and actually has become more popular in the past few months. Do you see a monopoly, the monopolies monopolizing the market and potentially destroying the value of Bitcoin? Do you think that's possible?

Soham Mehta (16:02.163)
They also put a clause in there too that said, know, the 21 million is not guaranteed. so everyone was kind of up in arms about that. Wow. So, Matt, what do you think about like the near future? Let's say the next 10 years, Bitcoin Tf is becoming more more popular and actually has become more popular in the past few months. Do you see the monopolies monopolizing the market and potentially destroying the value of Bitcoin? Do you think that's possible?

Matt (16:14.858)
in the next 10 years.

and actually has become more popular in the past few months. Do you see the monopolies monopolizing the market and potentially destroying the value of Bitcoin? Do you think that's possible?

George Pu (16:31.421)
I mean, I think that the ease of self custody is a concern, right? It's like difficult for an individual to self custody. It's a lot to think about. It's a lot of responsibility. And so that's a challenge. And I think in general, like Bitcoin does not die if we live in a mostly custodial future. think it is still phenomenal money is the best money that's ever been created. It's in a beautiful abstraction on energy.

Matt (16:31.477)
I mean, I think that the ease of self-custody is a concern, right? It's like difficult for an individual to self-custody. It's a lot to think about. It's a lot of responsibility. And so that's a challenge. And I think in general, like Bitcoin does not die if we live in a mostly custodial future. I think it is still phenomenal money is the best money that's ever been created. It's in a beautiful abstraction on energy.

Soham Mehta (16:31.539)
I mean, I think that the ease of self custody is a concern, right? It's like difficult for an individual to self custody. It's a lot to think about as a lot of responsibility. And so that's a challenge. Um, and I think in general, like Bitcoin does not die if we live in a mostly custodial future. I think it is still phenomenal money is the best money that's ever been created. Isn't a beautiful abstraction on energy. Um, it will be okay.

George Pu (16:59.644)
It will be okay.

Matt (16:59.657)
It will be okay.

If we want a great outcome, then we have more and more people that self-custody. And if we want the people, you know, the majority and the people that believe in Bitcoin to have, you know, more power in the future of it and making sure it is best for all people rather than only a small group, then I think it is much better if more people individually hold it. Now, even if the, I think even if the ETFs like, you know, gobble up a good majority or a good portion of the Bitcoin,

George Pu (17:01.65)
If we want a great outcome, then we have more and more people that self custody. And if we want the people, know, the majority and the people that believe in Bitcoin to have, you know, more power in the future of it and making sure it is best for all people rather than only a small group, then I think it is much better if more people individually hold it. Now, even if the, I think even if the ETFs like, you know, gobble up a good majority or a good portion of the Bitcoin,

Soham Mehta (17:01.775)
If we want a great outcome, then we have more and more people that self custody. And if we want the people, know, the majority and the people that believe in Bitcoin to have more power in the future of it and making sure it is best for all people rather than only a small group, then I think it is much better if more people individually hold it. even if the, I think even if the ETFs like, you know, gobble up a good majority or a good portion of the Bitcoin,

there will always be ETS in various countries. so that kind of geographical distribution that occurs with it, which does still make it a little bit more decentralized. But I just tell people, like as an individual, if you want to delegate those responsibilities, and I understand it, it's difficult, right? It's difficult to go out there and like hold your own keys and like learn about that whole process. Like it's a hard thing to do. There's also like, I mean, for us here in Canada, there are tax benefits.

Matt (17:31.488)
will always be ETS in various countries and so that kind of a geographical distribution that occurs with it, which does still make it a little bit more decentralized. I just tell people like as an individual, you want to have, if you want to delegate those responsibilities, and I understand it, it's difficult, right? It's difficult to go out there and like hold your own keys and like learn about that whole process. Like it's a hard thing to do. There's also like, I mean, for us here in Canada, there are tax benefits.

George Pu (17:31.497)
There will always be ETFs in various countries. so that you're kind of a geographical distribution that occurs with it, which does still make it a little bit more decentralized. But I just tell people, like as an individual, if you want to have, if you want to delegate those responsibilities, and I understand it, it's difficult, right? It's difficult to go out there and like hold your own keys and like learn about that whole process. Like it's a hard thing to do. There's also like, I mean, for us here in Canada, there are tax benefits.

Soham Mehta (18:01.223)
You can put in your tax free savings account, whereas you can't, you know, you can't do that with real Bitcoin, which I think is ridiculous. I mean, I hope that one day Bitcoin is just considered a currency so that, so that's, you know, not under capital gains, but I think in general, like, like if you want to have that right and you want to have that responsibility and you want to have, you know, your own sovereignty and have control of it and be able to make decisions like that in the future, then absolutely you should work towards being.

Matt (18:01.391)
in your tax free savings account, whereas you can't, you know, you can't do that with real Bitcoin, which I think is ridiculous. I mean, I hope that one day Bitcoin is just considered a currency so that, so that's, you know, not under capital gains. But I think in general, like, like if you want to have that right and you want to have that responsibility and you want to have, you know, your own sovereignty and have control of it and be able to

George Pu (18:01.43)
in your tax-free savings account, whereas you can't do that with real Bitcoin, which I think is ridiculous. I I hope that one day Bitcoin is just considered a currency so that it's not under capital gains. But I think in general, if you want to have that right and you want to have that responsibility and you want to have your own sovereignty and have control of it and be able to...

Matt (18:25.173)
make decisions like that in the future, then absolutely you should work towards being, you know, having self custody of your own funds. And maybe that's, you know, you start out with it, start out with it in the ETF and you slowly move that, you know, you have a small amount on your phone and then eventually you get a hardware wallet. Like it doesn't need to be all at once. And maybe you hold a portion of your coin in self custody and a portion ETF. Obviously I would advocate for people doing the self custody route. but yeah. Yeah. So,

George Pu (18:25.194)
make decisions like that in the future, then absolutely you should work towards being, you know, having self custody of your own funds. And maybe that's, you you start out with it, start out with it in the ETF and you slowly move that, you know, you have a small amount on your phone and then eventually you get a hardware wallet. Like it doesn't need to be all at once. And maybe you hold a portion of your coin in self custody and a portion of ETF. Obviously I would advocate for people doing the self custody route. but yeah. Yeah. So,

Soham Mehta (18:29.519)
having self custody of your own funds and maybe that's you start out with it in the ETF and you slowly move that you have a small amount of your phone and then eventually you get a hardware wallet like it doesn't need to be all the plants and maybe you hold a portion of your coin in self custody and a portion in ETF obviously I would advocate for people doing the self custody route but yeah. Last words from someone who's a devoted Bitcoin ETF buyer.

George Pu (18:53.012)
Last words from someone who is a devoted Bitcoin ETF buyer. So what advice would you give to young people who are considering buying Bitcoin? Yeah, I think the main point is you want something that can kind of be diversified from, I guess, all the risks going on in the markets today. I think it's very volatile. And so I think the easiest way to do it is these ETFs are in the exact same structure in your brokerage account the way that you're

Matt (18:53.013)
Last words from someone who is a devoted Bitcoin ETF buyer. So what advice would you give to young people who are considering buying Bitcoin? Yeah, I think the main point is you want something that can kind of be diversified from, I guess, all the risks going on in the markets today. I think it's very volatile. And so I think the easiest way to do it is these ETFs are in the exact same structure in your brokerage account. The way that you're

Soham Mehta (18:58.275)
So what advice would you give to young people who are considering buying Bitcoins? Yeah, I think the main point is you want something that can kind of be diversified from, I guess, all the risks going on in the markets today. I think it's very volatile. And so I think the easiest way to do it is these ETFs are in the exact same structure in your brokerage account, the way that you're already buying something else. And this is a completely different asset class. And if you want some kind of capital flight,

Matt (19:21.237)
something else and this is a completely different asset class if and if you want some kind of capital flight that takes away and strips out the volatility of geopolitics Bitcoin will like be Bitcoin regardless of how the world will be the 21 million will be the 21 million regardless of how the world will be

George Pu (19:21.246)
something else and this is a completely different asset class if and if you want some kind of capital flight that takes away and strips out the volatility of geopolitics Bitcoin will like be Bitcoin regardless of how the world will be the 21 million will be the 21 million regardless of how the world will be unless BlackRock decides on something else but so the point is that in the case that you do see that maybe you want to like diversify bit the ETF would be the easiest way for

Soham Mehta (19:27.847)
that takes away and strips out the volatility of geopolitics. Bitcoin will like be Bitcoin regardless of how the world will be. The 21 million will be the 21 million, regardless of how the world will be. Unless BlackRock decides on something else. But so the point is that in the case that you do see that maybe you want to like diversify a bit, the ETF would be the easiest way for you do it. It'll take you seconds. And then maybe you can kind of do what Matt's mentioning and the idea of like, seeing what

Matt (19:40.039)
BlackRock decides on something else. But so the point is that in the case that you do see that maybe you want to like diversify a bit, the ETF would be the easiest way for you do it. would take you seconds and then maybe you can kind of do with what Matt's mentioning and the idea of like seeing what if you want the sovereignty benefits of Bitcoin as well. Okay awesome and thank you our listeners for listening this episode of quarterlife cap.

George Pu (19:51.16)
you do it will take you seconds and then maybe you can kind of do with what Matt's mentioning and the idea of like seeing what if you want the sovereignty benefits of Bitcoin as well. Okay awesome and thank you our listeners for listening this episode of Quarter Life Capital so we're trying shorter content that's going to help people in their 20s even even more so stay tuned to our YouTube channel or if you're listening our podcast stay tuned to our podcast subscribe wherever you listen thank you

Soham Mehta (19:57.509)
if you

Matt (20:06.764)
So we're trying shorter content that's going to help people in their 20s even, even more. So stay tuned to our YouTube channel, or if you're listening to our podcast, stay tuned to our podcast. Subscribe wherever you listen. Thank you.