Quarter-Life Capital

George Pu (00:01)
Yeah, Soham I think we were just talking about like the topic of frugality for young people, And I personally think I have a take and I would love to hear what you think. I think frugality is getting harder because of how social media is transforming like the brains and how the way people think, right? I think social media is like pumping hate a lot and social media is making people a lot more insecure about themselves.

⁓ So, like people are thinking about okay, like if this guy is driving a G wagon like I gotta drive a G wagon or if this guy is traveling somewhere nice I gotta travel somewhere nice and I think that lifestyle is really crippling young people quite a lot and I think I personally know people around me who are like really struggling with the idea of like cost of living right and I and I really want to come back to topic of like frugality because I have know people who are extremely successful and wealthy and they live below the means just like you know, anyone else just like you and me, you know, you know when they're a multi-millionaire or even like

one person I know who has like a $50- $100 million dollar net worth, who wears the same shoe every day for five days a week. So I just really want to know like Soham, like what's your definition of like frugality and how do you see young people practicing it today?

Soham Mehta (01:11)
Yeah, so I think my definition of regality would be similar to yours. People that like maintain a lifestyle of again, not just living below their means, but living below like the layman's means. For example, one of my friends, he's very well off, will go out to eat and just for like lunch. And for example, I went to like a restaurant for like Thai food. about $16 after tax, but he decided, hey, let's go somewhere else to like a place that's cheaper. And this is a multimillionaire, right? And so then it's like those kind of

George Pu (01:39)
Mm-hmm.

Soham Mehta (01:40)
daily habits that I do think compound. And I do agree with you this idea that on the younger people's side, that level of frugality is starting to like disappear as a culture. And then I'll agree with you one more time that consumerism has had a big reason for this increase. And the reason for the consumer increase I do think is social media where you can kind of constantly portray your best version of yourself, where you're doing the best things possible, the best whatever.

And that kind of like creates this like level of jealousy between people. But then one thing I would add to all of this that I think is the bigger reason for frugality is just inflation overall. So in between microeconomics and macroeconomics, there's this one big divide and it's called this idea of marginal utility. And I'll give you a thought experiment, George. It's this idea that if I were to ask you right now, right here, I'll give you a diamond or I'll give you a bottle of water. What would you pick?

George Pu (02:38)
Probably pick a diamond. Wouldn't I? Yeah.

Soham Mehta (02:39)
Exactly, right?

Because like if you know that water is plentiful in your life, but now if you've been 10 days in the desert, and I were to ask you that same question, and you're not going to get any kind of water at all, would you pick the bottle of water or the diamond?

George Pu (02:53)
Of course I picked the water, because I'm thirsty,

Soham Mehta (02:54)
And so I think that

and I think that's what like we're kind of like seeing is that as like the amount of money constantly starts increasing and increasing in supply, what ends up happening is that the individual doesn't have as much of an incentive to be able to save money because that next unit will be so much easier to get. So for example, during 2020, 2021, when there was a surplus of cash because of the quantitative easing into the markets.

There was a surplus because of like just the amount of money being printed and everyone got like these checks from the government saying, hey, yeah, we know it's a hard time. When you start getting the next unit is becoming easier to get. You don't really feel a need to be as frugal. For example, if the next unit of money becomes really hard, so we're in like a deflationary period during high interest, people start saving more. And it's just this like idea of like incentives like drive change.

And so that's where microeconomics always transfers into the macro side of things where you start seeing behavior change between individuals.

George Pu (03:54)
Yeah, I agree. I think there two sides of this, right? There's one that's like, okay, people who don't have enough, who are living way above their means. And there's also the other side of this, is that people who are extremely wealthy, but they're always saying that they don't care about money and money doesn't really mean much to them that they're all about.

They're all about helping making the world a better place and they don't think about it, right? And I also saw a lot of people like that in my life as well. They think money is a sin and they're extremely wealthy people who have know, net worth of tens of millions or even more. And they just talk about it as a sin and they hate it. And I don't think that is a successful...

mindset of it either, right? Because like, okay, like let's be real, like Nicole, we are in a capitalistic society. So capital and money does have a place in everybody's heart. Like I personally hear, so I'm like, I personally believe in like, I was recently reading this book.

⁓ by like Sahil Bloom, I think it's called like a five types of wealth. But in summary, I think he basically has like this like five types of wealth. It's like physical wealth, mental wealth. You have the social wealth, which is like your relationship with your family and with your friends. And time wealth is like how much time you have left in, you know, you can actually do in a day. And the lastly is like financial wealth, right? So it's like, and the more I read it,

The more I find it like actually making sense because like for my life at least like there has been a point in my life back in college where I was pursuing this like, you know, asset game. was thinking like, okay, like how can I look better? How can I look be look more successful and all that? Right. So, and I, I, and I will admit on a pod here, I made a fatal mistake, you know, I made a fatal mistake in my college. I bought a very expensive car on a lease. And, and, and, and you're hearing, you're hearing this on a pod first.

Soham Mehta (05:37)
You

George Pu (05:42)
And I wasted, you know, I don't know, I wasted like 30, $40,000, you know, not necessarily, right. And all that lesson taught me to really feel the pain of when that is like taken away from me. And when I made a serious freaking mistake and, at that time, think so, so people will look at me today and I can be very confident and letting anyone know like, okay, I believe I live a frugal life today. I believe I'm not overspending my limit. I believe I'm saving.

for the compounding piece of it. And I believe that, okay, like I'm...

Spending my day every day thinking about okay work and I save work and I put more money to savings So I can actually grow right and think about long term and this is also like a long term thinking thing So I was thinking when you think short term in terms of like, okay having the best birthday party You know expensive going to the club and you know burning tens of thousands of dollars That's a short term thinking of impressing your friend but on a long term thinking which I think people eventually Realize and go to is that that $10,000 I can save right?

I maybe spend a thousand, I'll put the rest into an ETF or I'll put the rest into some other asset classes and I will grow it on the long term. And I don't think many people do this to be really fair, but I do think that's a mindset I started developing. So, okay, like a dollar I can save can actually be a hundred dollars 10, 20 years from now. So is that something that you've been thinking as well? I'm like, what's your principle on this?

Soham Mehta (07:10)
Yeah, and I think that comes down to the idea of like, where do you see your value of your money being able to accrued the most? And so I think the book you mentioned, The Five Types of ⁓ Wealth, is a great example of it. And people that kind of like, if you want to like spend your money to go to the club, or just even say, know, go out with your friends, the way you kind of like approaching life is that you see that is where your wealth is like, accruing the most is with experiences.

That might be like the more positive light to put this in. And I think that's where the behavior starts shifting. You have people that start like, I guess hyper focusing on different types of wealth. For example, with like financial wealth and the idea that people that are like extremely frugal that are extremely well off. It's this idea that like any one type of wealth that you keep trying to like get addicted to, to a very high level will be like a very negative over a long time.

And so I think that kind of, when we talk about short term versus long term, I think that kind of also has to play a role in this because in that same way, people that like save, because they know that, if I were to be able to invest this money and I feel very good about my investment, I know I understand it well. Those people maybe then, for example, one of the biggest regrets that people have in their like 60s is, I didn't spend enough time with my family, my kids, I worried too much about my job or my business, right?

George Pu (08:25)
Mm-hmm.

Soham Mehta (08:37)
I don't think the idea is just simply, me worry about where my money is. I think the idea is like trying to create more of like a healthy balance between all parts of your life.

George Pu (08:48)
Yeah, and I think in that book, the financial wealth, I think a big component of that is knowing what amount will be enough. And to be quite frank, I don't know how to answer that question myself. I read that book like three weeks ago or four weeks ago, and I'm still thinking to myself, how much is enough? Because I honestly cannot answer that question. And I think if I do give an answer, that would just be grandiose. It would just be a BS answer. So the answer is that I don't know.

Soham Mehta (08:55)
Mm-hmm.

George Pu (09:15)
Right. So my financial wealth is actually low because I don't actually know what amount will be good enough. Right. And, just just speaking for myself, like, so I think I'm low currently on time wealth because I'm literally going on a trip in a few days. Right. And every time I go on a trip, as a, as, as ⁓ as an entrepreneur, I always feel this dread of like, okay, like I cannot actually just put my into a hundred percent into the trip. I, there's always going be something that comes up and I try myself very hard this time to delegate. Right.

don't

think it's gonna work this time either. So is that okay, like you can go on vacation, but you can actually enjoy 100 % of the time. So do I actually have a lot of time off? Like I honestly don't think so. So that's kind of like my reflection of things is like, I'm not perfect even now, like with different things, right? There's so many things I think I'm lack of. So Soham, what do you think of like the five types of wealth that you think you need to more work on?

Soham Mehta (10:09)
I think for me, I guess I'm fortunate in the sense that I do have some time wealth and I feel okay with financial wealth in a sense, at least for like where I'm at in my life right now. I think that for me the hardest part is health itself. I don't think I get enough of a walk. my, for example, I don't get my 10K steps a lot of the time. And I also do this to myself. My diet also becomes like a little bit worse.

My sleep schedule becomes erratic at times because of so much different things that add up. And I feel like the idea is being able to balance all five is just hard. It's just so hard unless you put like genuine constant effort. Like for example with you George is, for you to be a genuine have time wealth, it's whoever like you're the one under you that you try to put in charge, you have to really be able to train them.

and get them to be at the exact level you can trust them 100%. That's the only point when you'd feel comfortable. And that's where the difficulty becomes. There's just such a hard thing to get to before you can get all five types of wealth in a certain essence. And I think that's where people in their mid-20s, that's probably the hardest part they're finding is like...

George Pu (11:07)
I think so. Yeah. Something, something close to it.

Soham Mehta (11:28)
It feels like you're doing extremely well in one or two of these like types of ways to live life. But then so many of the other ones you feel bankrupt in a sense of the wealth because you just don't feel like you have the time to able to focus on all of them at once.

George Pu (11:41)
Yeah. And I think to be fair, like I think the reason of the book is that because there's very few people who has all five, right? And obviously like nobody has all five values as least from the people that I know. So the idea, guess, is to try to make you refocus and really think about where in your life of those five are you actually lacking right now. And I think for me, as I said, it's time wealth, right? It's maybe even a little bit of a social wealth because I have a friend who's going out to see a game with his friends at to see the Leafs game.

And you know, I remember, okay, I haven't done that for a very long time. You know, I have not gone to a bar with my friends for like very long time, you know, so maybe it's something that I, it's something that I can work with. Right. So, ⁓ I, and I feel like there shouldn't be any excuses for not doing these things, ⁓ for having low scoring low on any of those things. It's something that I think internally you could work on, you know, honestly, and, and I think coming back to like the social media and the frugality part.

I'm really concerned about the amount of time people of our generation like some spend on social media. I think, and it sounds like my mom, honestly, but it's actually, it's scary. The more I think about it, like the, the way that we consume social media to get the dopamine. Right. Like even, even when we create content, um, like for the podcast, you know, we need to clip, uh, we need to clip the clips that really like drives engagements for people. Right. And, and that's reality is everybody is trying to try to, you know, take your

dopamine when you're looking at the swords, when you're looking at this content and that's really draining people of like draining of their time. think it's the most important thing. Right. And, and, and if you spend 30 minutes a day on tiktok 30 minutes a day on Instagram, it adds up, it adds up in compounds that that hour, not saying like you shouldn't spend any time on those, but that our compounding you could spend it really somewhere else. Um, so as well, I want to take your view about like, what do you think about like social media in general?

And I can also share how I spend social media. And you can share a little bit how you spend social media. And then we can compare how we do. So I have Instagram.

but I barely use it. I don't really read my friends' stories that much anymore. So I just really try to keep it, turn notifications off and not let it take too much of my time. So TikTok, I have to admit, I probably spent probably 20, 30 minutes on it. And that's my SMS, so it's probably a little bit longer. And YouTube, I spent some time on it, watching different stuff. So I probably spent an hour a day on social media. What about you, Sam?

Soham Mehta (14:05)
Hahaha

Yeah, I definitely spend much more and that's one other part of my life I want to really be able to focus on and get much lower. I feel like I'm definitely a consumer of all of this content. But I guess the point is the other aspect that becomes important when we talk about this is...

What is that kind of like, George, you mentioned YouTube, for example. I think there's also lot of benefit if you're able to like use YouTube to like help like enhance yourself too. And one thing I'll say in that essence is it feels like every new technology that comes in, there's a way to really like take your brain and put it into like a different type of life versus and what I mean by that is like in a really positive way or in a really negative way.

if like at all extremes. And the example I'll give is, I think like one of the first technologies we've had in human history is like the book. And books, ⁓ we've got to a point where we think any type of reading is good reading, right? But sometimes you're just not reading stuff that could help you. But then as technology gets better, what's happening is it becomes cheaper technology. So from like books, you went into like these like long form movies or like skits first, like actual plays.

George Pu (15:00)
Mm-hmm.

Soham Mehta (15:27)
and you go to television, then you go to movies, then you go to television shows. And as this content type gets shorter and shorter, what happens is you're not engaging in as much effort on each aspect of it.

And so now we've got to a point where the only effort you put in is scrolling and it's for like five seconds, 10 seconds. And so that's right there is where the capturing of is like the worst. And so the thing I would ask every like person that's like listening or even just like thinking about this is the idea of like putting effort into what you're consuming. And like a great, guess, real life example ⁓ counterpoint would be when you're drinking like a fruit smoothie versus

George Pu (15:38)
Hmm.

Yep.

Soham Mehta (16:08)
eating an actual fruit because you're actually chewing and you burn a little bit more calories, it's better for you just in your actual like intake versus just drinking the smoothie, right? Even though that is kind of good. So maybe it's not the greatest metaphor, but that's the point I'm trying to get at is when you're going on some of these like reels or something like that, there's no additional enhancement. I think there is like benefit with like Tik Tok for like, seeing where like human trends are going, things like that. But if for example, you're not actually using it for any other reason,

There is no productivity there, right? And that's where it really will start decaying you.

George Pu (16:43)
Yeah, and I think it influences the decisions that you're making as well. It influences the way that you see the world, right? We just had this Canadian election and I think personally, I was very, I was even turned a little bit, I don't know, a little bit onto one side of the spectrum because of how much political content there are on TikTok. So I really believe, okay, the other side's bad, the other side's evil, the other side's playing those tricks and all that. And now the election's over, right?

Soham Mehta (16:47)
Mm-hmm.

George Pu (17:11)
And I'm not using social media TikTok anymore for at least like since the election was over, a week ago, two weeks ago. I really have thought about the way I was thinking during those times, the way I was perceiving different parts of like the people, right? That support a different party. I literally thought a very more fringe like view of them, right? And that's what social media did to me, even though I... ⁓

self-proclaim I have some ⁓ moral standards or have self-control and I guess not, I guess that not really, right? So if that influences me, I think it could influence anybody, right? In terms of like the way that you think. And I think a lot of social media now it's like, okay, driving, like making this luxurious lifestyle more appealing for young people. What happens? Young people go out and take credit cards. They spend credit cards and they get into debt.

Right? Like something that this luxury of like, you know, competition in life and people do different things just to stay ahead, just to make their friends more impressed of them. Right? That's like this rabbit hole that you really never get out of. And so I think social media, think, you know, it's really influencing things. you have, have you feel like it influenced you ever?

Soham Mehta (18:21)
Yeah, and I think it's social media and maybe even just mainstream media has now become it too, because it feels like, again, as like the effort for consumption of content has started to decrease, we become a society that's narrative focused, right? And I think, George, you hit on like the perfect thing for it, which is politics. And we've seen both sides of the party now hate each other and antagonize the other side. I think it started really in America during COVID and it's grown so much.

become like corner, sort of an international event. Even in Europe, we're seeing both extremes on the other sides calling the other one evil and things along those sides for what back in the day used to be very like civil debates. It used to be like, oh, hey, no, this taxes of X percentage is better because of X, Y and Z. Private health care is better for X, Y and Z. It just used to be people that had different ideas on how to do something versus now it's kind of become like.

If you want private healthcare, you want this person just to become rich. You want this. And it's become kind of just like labeling of an individual through these narratives. And because of that, what ends up happening is again, and I think I was in the same point as you, George, where as I was consuming all this political content, I felt like I started becoming much more on the right side versus what I used to be. I think I was very moderate when I was growing up and everything along those lines.

And it becomes like, it's because you keep seeing these extremes that, the other side is X, Y, and Z, it's so bad for you, it's so this. It becomes hard to like, just to be able to like stray away from that content too.

George Pu (19:58)
Yeah, we can't have a conversation anymore about, you know, anything to debate. And you see it from the US, you see it here in Canada. Like we really cannot debate on two sides, right? About any issues, because then you got branded as a certain segment, you know, a certain bad word, heartless or whatever. And that's true on both sides. So that's a little bit, a little bit scary. Um, but yeah, but so I'm, guess finally coming back to this like youth mentality.

Soham Mehta (20:00)
Yeah.

George Pu (20:24)
⁓ I'm really concerned about the trend of like social media is doing to young people I'm really concerned about this trend of like making yourself look rich Is doing to young people and and I'm wondering if there is any way that you know that we can really save ourselves this generation ⁓ So for you so ham. Do you think are there any other? Time bombs potentially that's like eroding young people's wealth, you know the five types of water or one nut Do you think there are any anything else?

Soham Mehta (20:51)
No, I think it's social media by a factor and more or some. And the way I see this, because the other part we're also seeing is this idea of like individualism has become growing and growing. One thing I was talking about was, I think it's become kind of famous now, this idea of like the third place has evaporated, right? Where like people would just go there to hang out and it's not like you would know exactly who's coming.

Even now we've got to a point where like George you were mentioning before on that. ⁓ me and my friends we haven't gone to a bar in a long time, right?

It's this idea that when you are going to go to the bar, you're planning it maybe a couple of days in advance if it's happening or else you're just not going to go right. Like maybe like five minutes before we're like, hey, let's just do this. That kind of like thing hasn't happened anymore. And a lot of that is because again, this social media is kind of like start stealing your attention. Like for if I'm going to get constant dopamine by just like scrolling on my Tik Tok, why do I want to go have an interaction with somebody else that feels like a gamble versus with Tik Tok? I know for a

fact, I'll be entertained. And I think that right there is gonna keep having this like flywheel effect that what scares me is more than people that are in their like mid twenties as children, like people that are like 10, 11 years old, where the only life you really know is through TikTok. At what point do you actually like to have interactions with other people as much as just scrolling by yourself?

George Pu (21:55)
Yeah.

Yeah,

and I think you're right on the loneliness effect, right? Why do people use social media? think loneliness actually plays a big part of it, right? Like why do people want to listen to podcasts and listen to YouTube videos or watch different things? It's because of like loneliness I think does play a part in a big part of it, even though like I think very few of us want to admit it. And I think you're right.

To be fair, have not ⁓ dined out with, you know, have a go to a bar with my friends for a while. And, the last, the last one was like a while ago. So it's really something I really need to reflect on as like a person of like, okay, where did that time all go? Right? Is it, is it, is it work that consumed me? Is it social media that consumed me? Yeah. And I think you're right. I do, I do like spend maybe some of my time somewhere else and that should be spent otherwise. Right. So, ⁓ I do think that's something.

more concerning these days. It's like, like we all control our destiny, which I think is cool these days as young people, because like for the first time, I think we all have like direct control of our destiny, which is pretty, pretty cool. But also like there are so many different like.

you know, mine, mine fields and you know, the different things that you have to go through. ⁓ and that's potentially gonna trap you inside, right? So I, I personally get quite afraid of that for our generation. I think you do need to fail a few times before you succeed, which is like really honestly the toughest, like to God sort of thing to succeed these days. ⁓ so yeah, so what do you think, what do you think this is like for you or for people around you? Like, how do you feel about this?

Soham Mehta (23:49)
Yeah, and I agree completely. It feels like we've started embracing a culture where it becomes hard to succeed overall. And I'll go back to my point that it just feels like interacting with other people is more and more of a gamble. And like an interesting study that I saw was

I forget the exact percentage, but it was an alarming percentage of men under 25 years old have never approached a woman, for example, to ask them out on a date. And when you think about the kind of way society is drifting, again, it becomes more and more just you as an individual, and you find it risky to have interaction with humans.

I think that right there, that one culture shift has been what's kind of like driven so much like of this divide between individuals and even like core friend groups. It feels like they're not as tight knit as what back in the day, like friend groups used to be just because you kind of lose that idea of like, ⁓ let me just call my friend and like, I know this will be a fun conversation because there's nothing else better to do. You know, like boredom kills all and you can never be bored if you're getting constant dopamine.

It really does feel like a drug.

George Pu (25:04)
Yeah, I text, I text my friends more, I guess, than, mean, me person. Right. And I think that's something I should think about. Okay. Why don't I call my friends for dinner or for lunch this weekend?

Soham Mehta (25:07)
Mm-hmm.

George Pu (25:14)
You know, that's something I should probably be thinking about, like this meeting in person, right? Instead of like doing everything on the internet. think in person thing is like way more important. My best business opportunities are happening in person. You know, like my best successes happen in person. So why can't we take the lead and start inviting our friends around us for lunch, for dinner, for breakfasts? You know, so I think the antidote of that, maybe just to end, like, and on this, the antidote, I think will be to be successful.

as a young person is that really care about the people around you and really be aware of who you want to be around you, right? Because also like who you are is also important to like the who you are. It's basically influenced by the three to five people around you, right? They shape the way you think. They shape the way you behave. And I think the antidote is that you'd be really careful at picking those three to five people and also, yeah, have like the support network around you.

Soham Mehta (25:58)
Yeah.

George Pu (26:09)
⁓ When you're young have friends who genuinely care about you not because you're rich not because you're you handsome or whatever not because of anything you have necessarily, but just because you're genuine Connections that you guys just care about each other right like as a friend, and I think that's like something I'm ⁓ I have and you know I just need to invite them more for lunch and for breakfast so so I'm all about you

Soham Mehta (26:29)
Yeah, George, I'll say one thing and I think it hits the point of you saying your kind of personality develops based on like the three to five friends you're the most close with. It feels like and like Lux Freeman had a really beautiful like way of looking at this. I was listening to his podcast. He said like, you know, people that he listens to, authors he reads is like a one sided friendship. And when I listened to that, I it was really beautiful. But then when you start applying that same logic for like social media in the sense of people that you follow, like

you might watch like the same influencer for like a long amount of time, that kind of becomes inside of your three to five people you hang out with the most. And I think that problem right there, it starts compounding in the idea that what you were saying earlier about like narratives being like forced, like even you found yourself much more polarized on like one side of the political spectrum, right? It's because those three to five people you kind of start hanging out with was almost just like,

George Pu (27:07)
Wow. Okay.

Soham Mehta (27:28)
this entire idea of like Mr. Right or Mr. Left for example. And that right there I think is where it's unhealthy where it's not just about like having three to five like real friends, it's about the ratio of that versus what time you're actually spending by yourself and like consuming content specifically.

George Pu (27:45)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And what do you think the antidote of that should be?

Soham Mehta (27:51)
Yeah, that was the main point of question. And I think the main point, the ato is just starting by something as simple as like walks and putting more effort into whatever you want to consume. And whether that's content, whether that's friendships, just like the more effort you put into something, the more you will get out of it, right? Like humans were evolved through this idea of attrition. And that's the way I think you just have to constantly be able to live your life is just by putting in more and more work, which

I feel like becomes hard in a world of complacency because of how easy, again, things are and accessible they are.

George Pu (28:28)
Yeah, great conversation. If you like our conversation, give it a like. Thank you.

Soham Mehta (28:33)
Thank you.