Quarter-Life Capital

Transcript Preview
Speaker 1 0:00
So if your business doesn't really need to have a lot of the overhead, you don't have to have on site staff 24 hours, right? Honestly, there's really no reason why you wouldn't be sitting up offshore.

Speaker 2 0:12
If you're rich enough, then you can basically do the research necessary to know all of the tax loopholes, to know where you can put your funds to set yourself up for a good spot. A lot of folks that are extremely wealthy, they will go and take loans against their stocks.

Speaker 1 0:28
And I think nations are getting addicted to tax revenue, right? So it's like a trend that like, Do Do you really think the US, Canada, UK, is going to lower their taxes going forward?

Speaker 2 0:37
Everyone wants to tax the person that's richer than them

Unknown Speaker 0:40
until they become that rich. You know,

Speaker 1 0:41
it's almost as if the wealthy class conspired with the ruling class to squeeze as much as possible for the middle class.

Speaker 2 1:02
Yeah, George, you were just telling me how you were just finishing your taxes for the year a couple of months ago, and how much of a pain it was. I know you have, like, a US Corporation, a Canadian corporation. Like, how have you been thinking about taxes lately? Like, it just seems like such a such a pain. And I just seems like taxes are increasing, not going down, you know,

Speaker 1 1:19
yeah, six years ago, I think I watched some y COVID videos, and the most important thing they said is to start your company Right, right? Which is to have the right articles in cooperation, have the right corporate setups and setting up in the most reputable country in the world, which is the US, right? So that's why I did six years ago, setting up in the US, and I think right now, operationally has been a nightmare for that corporation, and I think part of that is because I listened to the advice about people, about sitting up as a Delaware C Corporation, which is great for startups, which is great for fundraising, after all, right? But the thing is, two years ago, we decided that we're never going to fundraise. We're going to bootstrap our startup, right? We're going to bootstrap our startup. We're going to grow our revenue, and we're going to compound forever, a little bit more like the Berkshire Hathaway model of it's like growing value inbound, right? And not have to raise additional capital. So the Delaware C corporation has been a nightmare for us because how expensive it is to just to maintain every year. So I'll tell you a brief overview about the taxes that we pay. We paid a Delaware we paid a Delaware State tax, which is called a franchise tax, and the minimum tax is about, I think, 450 US dollars, and the more shares that you issue to yourself. So for example, if Matt, you and I open a company, it's 10 million shares, I'll probably gonna pay $10,000 a year in taxes for the franchise tax. So I didn't know that I issued a lot of tax to me and my co founders, and now I'm looking back waking up in a nightmare, having to pay 1000s of dollars every year for nothing, right? And I'm basically everything that we have made with like, a good chunk of it in the US, at least, goes to taxes, right? And that's not even counting the federal income tax that you have to pay as a corporation in the US, and that's not even mentioning the corporation tax that we had to pay here in Canada, and the individual payroll tax and all the other stuff that we have to pay. So it's been a

Speaker 2 3:04
nightmare. Well, I didn't even realize, you know, there's things like the withholding tax. Like, as a business, when you're paying employees, you have to take a certain percentage of the amount that you pay employees, and you have to withhold that. And there's actually a rule against that, like, that's the law, you know. Like, there's all these things in place to make sure that the CRA gets their money, or, you know, any transaction that goes cross border between Canada and the US, the CRA, you know, make sure that they get their cut. And it's just insanity, like I even heard about. I was just watching a video the other day about the TFSA and how, you know, if you do, they actually have this thing called the advantage rule where, basically, if they deem that you took advantage of a situation in any manner, they could decide to put ridiculous penalties and taxes on top of you. By the way, FSA stands for Tax Free Savings Account. That's a special account that we have in Canada. But yeah, literally the situation where even if you try to do things to, you know, be able to make a significant amount of money, or if you even play by the rules at every step along the way, they'll still take you to court and still go after you. And it almost feels like a cartel to a certain extent. So, I mean, this is obviously, like, a really big problem. And I feel like there's a lot of like, entrepreneurs that are constantly thinking about this. Have you been looking like, reviewing, I guess maybe the mistakes that you made along the way as an entrepreneur, George, and maybe thinking about, like, well, you know, how can how would I have set things up if I had to

Unknown Speaker 4:37
read it? Like, how do that? Yep,

Speaker 1 4:39
and let me tell you a story before I get into that. So I think the system is really working against you, right? So I live in dental, Toronto. I have a condo, right? So a few months ago, I was thinking about, okay, I should probably move to a bigger house. So that was like my personal decision, moving to a bigger house and and trying to get into the rental market and try to prepare documents as an entrepreneur, the one. Thing you know that you realized, and if you're entrepreneur, you probably know this, is that everybody hates an entrepreneur and renting out to a self employed entrepreneur. So even though you have all the paperwork, and let's even though you are on a payroll as entrepreneur, you're paying yourself, they hate you. They hate you. They hate you, and they're not going to rent to you, you know. And I have no idea, like, why, why this model is and honestly, just telling you about how the payroll tax I pay, right? So after tax, I pay myself using my corporation. So I pay myself around $4,000 I think, every month post post taxes, right? So it's not really, really high amount. And the payroll deductions from my company, so I get paid 4000 and my company has to deduct 7000 from the corporate account, right? I'm sure magic can probably relate to that. So the company has to pay 3000 of like the pension plans, employer insurance and all that, you know, different things. So even though paying all that taxes, which you know, ideally, you can also just use a dividend to get rid of that, right? So many business owners pay themselves using dividends, which is not the path I'm taking because, but even though I'm taking all the right steps as the society and the system just works against you by not renting to me. So eventually I decided, okay, I'm not going anywhere. I'm gonna live in my condo, which I'm perfectly happy with. And yeah, screw the system. So that's kind of my thing. And to your question about, your question about, like, how would I set up differently, right? I really think that, like I said, the system is trying to work against you, right? And, and, and you have to think about if you're starting now a business, right? And, let's say if you're starting a software business, which even better. So if your business doesn't really need to have a lot of the overhead, you don't have to have on staff, like on site, staff, 24 hours, right? Honestly, there's really no reason why you wouldn't be sitting up offshore, in my humble opinion, right? And not CRA advice, of course, well,

Speaker 2 6:48
well, George, a lot of people might have a problem with that, you know, like, oh, like, who are you? You know, a nice entrepreneur. You know, people always say that about the rich, you know, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. They don't pay any taxes. They just have everything offshore. You know, they're not even paying their taxes. They're not even helping out the common man. Obviously, that's not what I believe. But you know, what do you think about people that say

Speaker 1 7:11
that? Yeah, I think, I think there is a, there's a systemic issue, right for the ultra rich. And I think people have to take the Ultra Rich, aside from everyone else, like such a small business owner, such as you and me, Matt, we hire people in the country like we pay our taxes, like we're humble people, just like average folks. And you also have the Western family here in Canada who donate half of their shares, a majority of their shares. And for people who are listening, they are the founders of the Laplace supermarket chain, which is like a very, you know, high end supermarket chain that owns basically all the groceries here in Canada. The company is probably worth about 30 to $50 billion and they family donated half of their shares to a CRA charity, registered charity. And the thing about the charity is that you only have to disperse about 3% I think it's, there's an exact number, but around three to 4% annually, right? Right? So they basically create a permanent vehicle that they donate their shares and their wealth. So let's say their shares is worth billions of dollars. They just got offset it, billions of dollars of taxes. So they just save themselves billions of dollars of taxes just on that. And then furthermore, right, anything that they they spend, they can buy bitcoin, Matt, they can buy bitcoin using their billion dollars of shares. You know, they can buy Bitcoin. Bitcoin is going to grow 10 times a year, so two times a year, right? And basically this charity just becomes their permanent capital base that they use to store their family generational wealth, and they're not paying a dime in taxes. And I'm sure the same thing is happening in the US. So when you look at when you look at people like me, and you Matt, and you look at people like the Western family, or even like, you know, Bezos and musk, I'm not sure exactly what's their setup, but you know, Peter teal, he put his Facebook shares in a Roth IRA account, which is basically like a retirement account, and that he's paying zero taxes on his on his Facebook shares, which is now worth billions of dollars. So those are, you know, inherently, I think, in a word, growth, right? But you have to really differentiate from people who do that and normal, average entrepreneurs who are just looking to save a little bit legally on taxes and putting it to a better use, reinvesting the business, right? What do you think, Matt, what's your take? Well,

Unknown Speaker 9:17
well, I feel like, well, first of all, I think we need to go into taxes for

Speaker 2 9:19
a second, because it's, I mean, it's, it's a weird situation, because, you know, people always say, you know you need, like, obviously, you know, if you don't pay your taxes, they put a gun to your head, and they say, you know, you must do this, or we'll put you in jail, which is kind of ironic, was, then, who's paying for you to be in jail? Well, the taxpayer, but, but basically, you know, they're putting a gun to your head and saying, like, you must pay these this amount, and you don't really get a choice in terms of how those funds are spent, right? So, you know, is it spent, as you know, repair XYZ road? Is it spent on healthcare? Is it spent at the federal level to find you, you know, you know, it's just a kind of a strange situation where. Where you don't really have control over where your funds are actually used, and you're forced to do that. And so I feel like that's kind of one of the big reasons why a lot of people have started to have the viewpoint of, you know, at the end of the day, you know, taxation is theft. You know, I don't have any problem with being charitable. I don't think most people do. I don't think people have problems with, you know, people wanting to give money to a particular cause or to improve something. But as a concept itself, in a society, it is, it is a little bit strange, and I feel like this is why a lot of people have been looking at alternative places to live. You know, folks that live in the West currently, they've been looking at places like Dubai, like Singapore, like Puerto Rico, for Americans like Paraguay as havens for, for having a place that you can live now, where you're not paying exorbitant taxes. And obviously there is, there's pros and cons to each of those things.

Speaker 1 10:49
Yeah, I think, I think if you look at politicians too, right? The politicians, they become richer and richer every year because of whatever structure that they've set up. But obviously politicians don't live offshore, so they live onshore. So how do they get so rich?

Speaker 2 11:01
Well, no, the structure that they have is that they know what policies are going to go into effect. Everyone knows that Nancy Pelosi, his husband, isn't, isn't this immaculate traitor. He's obviously having some inside information. And so, you know, and and obviously, I think the majority of them also have offshore, offshore accounts and so but that's just a strange thing, right? Because it's basically like, if you're if you're rich enough, then you can basically do the research necessary to know all of the tax loopholes, to know where you can put your funds, to set yourself up for a good spot. A lot of folks that are extremely wealthy, they will go and take loans against their stocks like, that's something that, you know, Elon Musk did to actually purchase Twitter, was take loans against his Tesla stock. And obviously, taking that capital and taking those loans, loans are not taxable. And so you can base, you know, there's a whole industry of folks that are taking the loans against their stocks. I think the new version of that going forward is going to be Bitcoin, like, Bitcoin back loans, people taking loans against their bitcoin is that becomes a, you know, much larger asset. But it's, it's just strange that you kind of people have to play these games in order to just not be, uh, taxed to hell and beyond. And

Speaker 1 12:12
that's why people are so cautious, and people are so distrusting of democracies these days, right? So it's, it's, it's one thing that your average politicians is like, Rich. I mean, I think people are okay with positive being rich. Look at, look at the Donald Trump, right? He's the president, so people are okay with Paul just being rich, as long as you're honest. And I think I see, actually, I

Speaker 2 12:31
feel like Trump is a weird situation, because he he was rich before he got in He did ask for salary. And while he was in office, his net worth went down, whereas, like the majority of other presidents, you know, that was not the case. Were they when they got into office, when they left, they were substantially wealthier. Now that this was true for the first term of Trump, I don't necessarily know that this is going to be true for the second term, because, and also, I think there's a differentiation between him as an individual and the Trump family. Because I think in general, there has been a lot of things that have occurred to the stock market, to crypto, obviously the Trump coin, Trump meme coin, being created, where his family was likely profiting on that. So I think it was true the first term presidency. I don't necessarily think it's, it's true, the second term presidency, yeah.

Speaker 1 13:24
And you look at, and look at in Canada, like our PRI previous PM, Trudeau, his net worth is, like, I don't know, seven to $100 million something so and, and he's running on a left leaning party, right? So it's just like, these hypocrisies. It just kind of like, gets people under the skin. It's like, okay, you know, like, it's, it's almost as if the wealthy class conspired with the ruling class to squeeze as much as possible for the middle class. And I think that is the scheme, you

Speaker 2 13:53
know. I mean, what is inflation, right? So, and I feel like this is kind of a funny thing that happened during COVID Because, you know, they basically had, you know, unlimited QE, what does that mean? Unlimited quantitative easing, which just means printing money. And, you know, there were checks given out to people during COVID, um, and basically what it means is people are like, Well, why do you need, why do we need to pay taxes when you can print money? Yeah, right. Like, that's, that's the ultimate question. So they so they devalue the value of the currency with inflation, and then they tax you on top of that. And then when you try to actually do things to escape inflation, like put it into into alternative assets, like Bitcoin, like stocks, then, then when you actually go to sell it, well, then they tax you on the capital gains. And so they tried, they're trying to create a system where it's almost impossible to actually be able to escape the taxation and the inflation,

Speaker 1 14:47
Yep, yeah. And I just, I want to say, like, I do think as individuals, as corporations, like, there is this, like, civic duty of paying your taxes, you know, so I think everybody should pay their taxes, pay their fair. Share of taxes, and I think everybody agrees with that, right? It's just like the political class, I kind

Speaker 2 15:05
of disagree. George, so, like, I think it's a situation where it's like, yeah, like, if you live within that regime, you need to pay your taxes for pragmatic reasons, because you don't want to go to jail, so pay your taxes, don't go to jail. But in terms of, you know, morally, I think there is a big question around it, because, you know, is this the best? Is this the best way that we're distributing wealth, right? Like the redistrict, redistribution of wealth is actually kind of a bizarre concept, right? Just in general. Now, I know, for you, George, you're, you're headed off to Dubai, if I'm not mistaken, like next week, they have a very interesting like, tax situation and tax regime. Obviously, it is not a democracy, but there's a lot of wealthy people that have gone to Dubai. Like, What things have you learned about Dubai that are different than the Western world, than tax policies that are in

Speaker 1 15:55
place there? Yeah. The crazy thing is that a few years ago, I don't think Dubai was on anybody spray dar necessarily, right out of this on TV shows. So I think it really took off because of COVID and because of what, subsequently, what happened after COVID, those draconian policies of, you know, wealth redistribution, high taxes, raising taxes, and sky high inflation. I think that is driving most people off to Dubai, right? And I was talking to somebody there, and he told me, there's, there are about 60,000 Canadians who currently live in Dubai, the city of Dubai, or the emirates of Dubai. So I thought that was crazy, because if you count 60,000 Canadian that's a lot of people for a country. That's just 40 million people in a small parts of the world. So there must be something attractive.

Unknown Speaker 16:36
That's the size of my hometown.

Unknown Speaker 16:39
That's the size of,

Speaker 2 16:41
you know, the university that we went to, you know, that's, that's quite a few people. That's a, that's a, that's a big village,

Speaker 1 16:48
yeah, that's a big village. And there's no and there's no election there. It's a family rule. People can agree disagree with that, but it's, it is what it is, right? It's, it's, there's no democracy there. You don't vote, but there's certain benefits to it that people just seems to enjoy. I think safety is a big thing over there. So I was there last year. It was really safe. I guess the people were saying on Tiktok that you could leave your car door open and your car key inside your car door, and you come back two, three days after it's still there, you know, in a mall or something so, and you throw a gold bar on the ground, and people are not gonna steal it. So I was there. I think it's largely true. I guess I don't think the gold bar stuff, it's true, but I did go to a gold shop, and the gold shop doesn't have any barricades on it. Isn't that crazy? Can you imagine that? Can you imagine a gold shop with no barricades? And anybody can theory I could smash open the windows and steal all the juries, but nobody does that, right? Because have very strict laws. So some people just, they do prefer it. You know, coming from some parts of western society, like it, you know, it's like going out, it's not safe at night. In some neighborhoods, like, people just have enough. They want some they want. In America you have, like, the school shootings, which is really horrible for anybody, to really match those, like, school shootings, right? Like, nobody wants their kids just to go to school, not not only if they're going to they're going to come back. That is horrible, right? You know. So, so people do have those sort of, like, expectations about a worthy, wanting life. And I think Dubai does attract a certain segment of the population, so I guess that's like, you know, that makes sense, and on top of, there's no tax, so, yeah, well, it's

Speaker 2 18:18
kind of insane, because it's almost like showing that it's in some ways, much safer than in the West, right? It's much safer than your average North American city and and I think that's a really interesting thing that's happening, right? Because you're having these havens pop up, like Dubai, like Singapore, like Hong Kong, where it is, you know, relatively very safe to live there, very high quality standard of living, and yet the taxation, especially for capital gains and income tax, is zero or extremely low. And I think what's really interesting about that as well, and when we look at the Bitcoin and crypto world, is that there's a lot of companies that are basing themselves in those jurisdictions. Let's take, you know, Singapore, for example. The other day, I was looking at defi llama, and I was looking at for the decentralized exchanges, all the perpetual exchanges I was looking at, okay, well, where are they actually all based? You know, the first the ranks number one, hyper liquid was based in Singapore. Next one, Singapore, Singapore, Hong Kong, Singapore, Singapore. The next the sixth one, was New York, right? And so it's like they're all based in that area. The largest derivative exchange in the world for Bitcoin is based in Dubai. You know, they just have a regulatory regime that is much more open for this type of thing, and also the taxation is extremely low. It's

Speaker 1 19:39
a loss, yeah, it's a loss for the US is a loss for Canada. It's lost for the UK. It's a lot of loss for any country that lose their entrepreneurships, you know, lose their entrepreneurs, lose their business builders, leaders to those jurisdictions, you know, like, because, because, if you really think about it, is like, okay, are people just escaping chess for tax reasons? Probably not. Because then people. Will go to Bermuda British Virgin Islands. They can live there and whatnot. So people are not just, you know, people are sitting up there, I guess. But they're not moving to BVI, they're not moving to Bermudas to live there, and they're moving to Dubai to move to Singapore. So why is that? Right? Then, there must be something out else that people do look for quality of life, safety or, you know, some opportunities, whatever it is. So it's a loss for all those countries. And Matt, I think about like, if you're a US citizen, right? Are you okay with your money? Like your tax dollar is being spent on, like, a bomb that's been dropped in certain regions of the world in the past couple months. So just like, a couple months ago, there's, there was this, like US led bombing of Yemen, and every bomb is costing, like, literally, like, 600,000 to $1.5 million each bomb, you know, and the human casualties aside, right? So it's, it's like, are you really okay that this is the way that your government's spending money? It's like, on warships, bombs, you know, all that different stuff. Maybe you disagree with that, and maybe that's why you pack up and you say, I want to go somewhere else, where the government's actually fare, where they're spending of money. And maybe that's where they go about Well, the problem

Speaker 2 21:01
is, though, like as a US citizen, you have, you have citizen based taxation, right? So now, if you're going, even if you leave, right, even if you leave the United States and you go to Dubai and you don't like how your tax dollars are being spent, you're still being taxed because you have, you're what you are, one of two countries in the entire world where you have citizen based taxation, because obviously, the United States views themselves as the police of the world. And so you go to Dubai, but you're still paying taxes. Because you're a US citizen. You're still paying those taxes back, you know, to your home country. And so, I mean, that's one of the things that's really interesting for us, like, we kind of have an advantage, George, because we're Canadian. You know, if you're Canadian, you're from the UK, you're from Australia, you like, you have an advantage, because if you leave your country, you know you're no longer being taxed, you're no longer being taxed as a Canadian, as a UK resident, etc, although certain countries are looking to change that. And so doesn't

Speaker 1 21:59
mean just pack up and leave. There's a there's a whole process of it, so we probably don't want to get into it here, but it's not you just pack up and leave, and that's that you pay no tax. That's not how it works. Well,

Unknown Speaker 22:08
there's an exit tax, right? And

Speaker 2 22:10
you need to be cognizant of that. And it's not like you can just say, Hey, I'm leaving, and like you need to declare where your tax residency is. And this is, this is actually one of the big reasons a lot of people have been looking at places like Paraguay now, because basically, Paraguay has, if you, if you go down there and get, like, a temporary residence or or permanent residence, you can actually declare it as your tax residency, as long as you're not living in any one country for more than, you know, 183 days, you can declare Paraguay as your tax residency, because the number of days to actually be there is actually zero.

Speaker 1 22:47
And so South American country, it's next to Brazil, right? Just for our listeners, yeah, that's in South America. It's

Speaker 2 22:53
Yes, next to Brazil, next to

Unknown Speaker 22:58
next to Argentina, as

Speaker 2 22:59
well, some of the some of the best beef in the world, some of the best steak I've ever had, was that when I was down in Paraguay and and so people are taking advantage of this now to be able to get access to 0% income, income tax, 0% capital gains tax, but it's really only if you're not a US citizen. Now, what a lot of you, I know a lot of like, you know, friends that are American, what they're doing these days is they're going to places like Puerto Rico. Actually, I think Puerto Rico is really the only option, because if, if you're there, and you're a resident for enough time, you can do the zero capital gains and very low income tax, but it's the only place that you can really take advantage of that, because if you go elsewhere, even if you go to Dubai or you go to Singapore, you're still gonna end up paying those capital gains taxes at a federal level no matter what. And so, you know, it's just such a it's such a tough game. It's such an annoying game

Unknown Speaker 23:55
that people have to play to be okay. It's the

Speaker 1 23:57
constant, yeah, it's the constant optimizations of taxes, and it's really tiring, right? Just like spending 20% of your time every day thinking about taxes, thinking about ways to optimize corporate structures, trusts, endowments and charities, just to, you know, get away with that, I think that's really the energy and time that should be spent on something else, maybe just grow your business better, you know, elsewhere. Well,

Speaker 2 24:17
I think the other thing people don't realize, too, is that, like, taxation is not just on your capital, but it's also like, you, you brought it up, George, it's on your time too, right? So people, how much time do people spend on taxes every year? How much time do I mean, maybe I'm talking about this because I'm I'm annoying because I just spent the last six days, like, dealing with, like, crypto taxes, just making sure everything was in order, and dealing with Bitcoin transactions and, oh, it's just such a nightmare to deal with. And the fact that, say, like, Bitcoin as a currency is not a it's not just considered a currency, and instead considered a commodity, you know, having to calculate, you know, what the bitcoin price was when each transaction was done, done. It's just like a complete, you know, a complete nightmare. So it's not only a tax on your money, it's a tax on your time. And, and, and I think that's actually a big reason why, like, if, if governments want to enable more innovation and more, you know, exciting things to be done in a country, really, what they should be trying to push for is to not only reduce taxes, but they should also be looking to reduce the tax complexity as well. Because I think that's a thing that a lot of people don't talk about every year. You know that the amount of complexity for taxes just continually increases because they try to implement these unique new tax benefits that are for a specific situation, and now everyone kind of needs to update their software around that. And the tax complex complexity has only been growing dramatically over the past, you know, 100 years. It used to be when, originally, when income tax came in, it was right after World War One, and it was only on the 1% like the one the richest 1% were the only ones that that were taxed. Now everybody is taxed, right? So it just goes to show, like, whenever people are like, I want to tax the rich. You know, eventually that tax will be passed on to everyone else. I remember Bernie Sanders was always like, we need to tax the billionaires and the millionaires. And he kept saying that every time the billionaires and the millionaires need to be taxed. One day, he suddenly said, instead of tweeting all that, he's just said, Just tax the billionaires. And everyone was like, Well, what about the millionaires? And everyone realized, well, Bernie Sanders now a millionaire. So, you know, it's just everyone wants to tax the person that's richer than them until they become that

Speaker 1 26:31
rich, you know, yeah, and I think, I think nations are getting addicted to tax revenue, right? So it's like a trend that, like, do, do you really think the US, Canada, UK, is going to lower their taxes going forward? I absolutely nothing. I don't think so that at all. I think it's impossible. It's like, we've passed the point of no return, right? Everybody who's afraid of taxes, they left. Everybody's like, are high earners. They left. They went somewhere else, man, like, like, nobody's gonna stay. Like, people who are staying, they're just the ones that, like you said, they're the ones who are staying here who are getting tax, so maybe increase tax even more so and that, and that, sadly, is the reality, right? And I was reading, like a book about this, written in the last century about about, like, what's the definition of nations now, after the internet, and now after AI, like, what really is definition of nations? Because I really think the differences between nations are getting reduced more and more. Like, put aside the languages, put aside the cultures, put aside, like, the military spending and all that, like, what, what really is Portugal different from, let's say, Canada, or the US, you know? Like, I don't really think there's that much of a difference and, and I think that's pretty much, maybe the point. It's that it's as we go forward, right? You can get your laptop in here now. You can work from anywhere in the world. And not, I'm not talking about digital nomad. I think that's a very, entirely different thing. It's different thing. It's like, it's like, you have the optionality to choose where you want to be. And naturally, as we've seen from history, migration, right? Migration happens, and we're seeing the developed countries, they're increasing the migration from other developing countries to developed countries. And you're also seeing like, you know, migration from developed countries to a few hubs in the world as well, right? We're seeing, we're seeing double sided migration that's happening in front of our eyes. And what do you think, Matt, about? Like, what's gonna happen next 10 years if we better make

Speaker 2 28:12
prediction? Um, let's see prediction like next 10 years. I mean, I think there's just going to continue to be more capital flight places like Dubai and Singapore. I think that the amount of immigration that's going to occur, I mean, we kind of had a pause on that in the United States because of Trump, but in Canada, that's not the case, right? We just elected Carney, and he wants to make the population of Canada 100 million. And so I think we're gonna continue to have, you know, a massive amount of immigration coming in. But I think in general, there's just going to be a constant stream of migration that's going to occur from people that are in developed countries going to these hubs and people from developing countries coming to these hubs. But there's also going to be a, you know, a group of people that are going from developed countries to developing nations as well. You know, people from Canada or the US going, deciding to go to Puerto Rico, or deciding to go to Costa Rica or Paraguay, or, you know, where we're really, they are able to get a very, very high quality of life for for a very, you know, low amount of money, right? So if you want to live, you know, like, I have a friend who's from India originally. And he's like, Hey, man, if I go back home, I could live like a king on a Canadian salad, you know, I can, I can have a maid. I could someone do, have someone do my laundry. I can have them cook food for me and everything. And I'm like, Well, geez, man, I don't, I don't have a, I don't have a country to go back to, you know. But really it's like, you know, for for Canadians or Americans like that is Puerto Rico, or that is, you know, Paraguay, or wherever it might be like, there are these kind of arbitrages that you can take advantage of. Whereas, you know, if you go to Dubai, things are probably going to be more expensive, or if you go to Singapore, things are actually going to be more expensive than here. And so I think that's just the arbitrage that people are going to be thinking more and

Unknown Speaker 29:59
more. More about over the next next couple